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cindy
07-14-2010, 10:07 AM
in the works. I'll pull my Duncan, Dr. J and Doc Nick books and get a chart going of recommended treatments. A work in progress.

with any treatment, increase oxygen

This is a partial list, invest in the books.

Dr. Johnson "Koi Health and Disease" a must have - available at koivetbooks.com

Step by Step Advanced Koi Diagnois & Treatments - Duncan Griffith ( stays on my desk)
order at www.koi-unleashed.co.uk

Advanced Koi Care By Dr. Nicholas Saint-Erne http://www.usakoi.com/Advanced-Koi-Care-By-Dr-Nicholas-Saint-Erne-Koi-Books-And-DVDs-sc-729.html

cindy
07-14-2010, 10:22 AM
WHITE SPOT (Ichthyophthiriasis Multifilis) Ich
White spot can't be touched with chemicals while its embedded and when it changes into the white salt looking cyst. We need to kill it when it leaves the fish and falls to the bottom. It is temperature dependant

Karl S (from our ER sticky)
Known as white spot. Easily seen on the body with the naked eye. The problem often experienced with koi is that it is only on the gills and so is not observed except for symptoms of flashing like so many other parasite infestations. Salt at .6% along with an increase in temperatures usually is enough to eradicate them. ProformC also is an effective treatment with an increase in temperature. Ich also is known to become quite active during barometric swings. The Florida fish farmers nearly always treat their fish for Ich following a strong thunderstorm

The following treatment is suggested by many: Three treatments, daily with 25% water changes before each treatment. On the third dose combine ProformC and Praziquantel and allow to stand for seven days Another treatment should be considered after seven days AFTER a 25% water change.. A small percentage of salt in the water will not affect the treatment or the fish. This treatment is for all parasites and it is temperature/life cycle dependent.

Malachite Green Stock Solution
15 grams makes one gallon. Thereafter use one drop per gallon. This is a great Ich treatment when combined with increased temperature for a few days. It has been used for many years by accomplished aquarists on their collections as well as fish farmers in Florida. For those with planted aquaria or ponds the plants seem to suffer no harm.



Duncan (us dose) Malachite green 2% 10 ml per 212 gallons
Formalin 30 % 10 ml per 180 gallons
(UK dose) MG 2% 10 ml per 176 gal
Formalin 30% 10 ml per 150 gal

Treat with MG&F as abouve 3 times leaving 5 clear days in between treatments with at least one 15% partial water change between each dose. Treat as abouve on days 1, 7, and 13

KMnO4 (PP) is also effectice against white spot at 1.5 ppm for 3 treatments leaving a minimum of 4 clear days between treatments.

Salt also works when accompanied with heat. Salt at .6% and raise the temp to 71-74 degrees F.

Dr. J (Koivet)
1. Remove valued live plants.
2. Raise temperature to 80 degrees, tops.
3. Increase aeration!
4. Add one teaspoon of salt per gallon.
5. Twelve hours later, add another one teaspoon of salt per gallon.
6. Twelve hours later, add another one teaspoon of salt per gallon.
7. Within 48-60 hours of the second salt dose at 80 degrees, the Ich will be gone.
8. Leave salt in the water for another 3-5 days unless you're worried about your live plants.
9. Remove salt via partial waterchanges. (30-40% at a time if desired).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Nick....

cindy
07-14-2010, 10:54 AM
COSTIA

Dr. Johnson from Koivet:
[/B]
http://koivet.com/a_costia.html

Salt:
During and after your treatment of Costia with salt at zero-point-three-percent, it is imperative that you serially biopsy your specimens to make sure the numbers of Costial organisms are decreasing or are absent. If you're still seeing Costial organisms after 72 hours in zero-point-three-percent salt, some level of resistance can be assumed. At that point you should either increase the salt concentration to zero-point-six-percent to-zero-point-nine-percent or consider Formalin. You should not use Formalin at fifty PPM with the higher levels of salt. I have used zero-point-three-percent salt and left it in during Formalin treatments. This has caused no problems in cooler water with high circulatory rates. I caution you that stiff (zero-point-nine-percent) salt solutions coupled with Formalin might create an oxygen availability/transfer problem. All oxygen tension problems become more acute under conditions of warm water, e.g. water over eighty DGF

Formalin is the best treatment for salt resistant Costia.

The general idea of this Formalin treatment is to apply fifty PPM Formalin (two milliliters(equivalent to cc) per ten gallons) to a tank with the filter bypassed. Increase circulation with a floom or with a spraybar. Run this level of Formalin for two hours and then execute a forty to fifty percent water change, with de-chlorinator. Repeat the treatment in 72 hours. Do this Formalin treatment for a total of three treatments and you can rid your system of Costia and Flukes.[/SIZE]

Karl S Costia is easily eradicated by applying heat. At 87*F. Costia is immobilized and can no longer reproduce. It only takes a few days for all to die. Unfortunately most pond settings do not allow for heat to applied to this degree. For those situations ProformC will work well. It is a formaldehyde and malachite green solution safe enough to be shipped without HazMat fees and is quite effective. The dosage may be increased slightly without fear to allow for errors in calculating the gallonage of the pond. Prior to dosing a 25 to 50% water change is advised to reduce the organics and improve performance of the chemical. see treatment for ich

Duncan -see treatment dosages for white spot bt with only 2 sequential treatments, is very effective. Costia is usually gone on the first pass, 2nd treatment takes care of problem bugs.

Fishbreeder
Proform C apparently does not work all that well, I hear the same tale again and again.What works for me at my farm...I use 50 ppm of formalin and 0.1 ppm of malachite green for one hour, then 25 ppm formalin and 0.1 ppm malachite green for one more hour, then the costia are gone.To do this...Using regular formalin (37% fromaldehyde) put 20 ml per 100 USG of storage capacity (pond plus filters). You must circulate the treatment through the filters. Using stock solution of MG....Make stock solution by adding exactly 14.5 grams of MG to one gallon of water and dissolve. Using this stock solution, add 10 ml per 100 USG storage capacity to the pond that has the formalin already added.Wait one hour. Remove exactly half the pond water and replace. This brings the formalin concentration down to 25 ppm and the MG down to 0.05 ppm.. Now, you add back another 5 ml per 100 USG of the MG stock solution to bring the concentration back to 0.1 ppm. Wait one hour and change half the water again. Costia will be gone.Another scenario is to add 10 ml per 100 USG of formalin as well as 10 ml per 100 USG of the MG and let it sey in the water fro 24 hours then change out about 40% of the water.Disclaimer: If you kill your fish, you killed your fish, not me. Nobody has to do anything I say, you take this advice, cause a problem, you got a problem.Brett

The Juice
07-14-2010, 11:18 AM
Good idea for a sticky.

cindy
07-14-2010, 11:21 AM
definitely, I have this all on one sheet, must be home in my ER binder. Probably needed updating anyway but I'll compare.

cindy
07-14-2010, 11:27 AM
chilodonella

Karl S Chilo is easily eradicated with salt at .6%. This salt treatment has an overall duration of 14 days. There are no ill effects using salt at this level. After the treatment is complete a series of water changes should be completed to slowly reduce the salt level to just that of the raw(incoming)water.

Chilo may also be treated as above (ProformC) for Costia. Either treatment will be effective but in the case of formaldehyde it is important that the organics(dirty water-poor water quality)be removed somewhat with a minimum 25% water change to improve the performance of the chemical.


Dr. J Chilodinella clears EASILY with salt. .3% Leave the salt in for 14 days, and be sure to supplement aeration, as gill damage d/t Chilodinella may be severe in the survivors. Chilodinella should be suspected anytime large numbers of fish are dying on the surface, or who roll over on their sides except when disturbed, the Koi dash madly adding Karls update:Chilodonella will clear with .6% salt over a treatment time of 14 days. If water changes need to be done during that time, remember to add salt back to .6%.

Duncan same MG & F treatment for white spot - extra air as always

cindy
07-14-2010, 11:37 AM
trichodina

Dr J Trichodina’s other ‘special ability’ is its occasional resistance to salt at 0.3%. Indeed, there are few cases wherein salt does not clear up this parasite, but when this occurs, it can be serious. In most instances of salt resistance, double and triple salt levels clear the pathogen. You should be aware that otherwise healthy fish will survive salt levels up to 0.9% [zero-point-nine percent] which is achieved with three tablespoons of salt per gallon

Duncan One single pass of 1.5 ppm KMnO4 is used to eradicate this parasite as long as you can maintain at least 2 to 3 hours purple water

PP UK dose 1.5 gm per 220 gallons US Dose 1.5 gm per 264 gallons

The standard dose of M G & F will also eradicate Trich. Again extra air is recommended

Karl S Trichodina can be treated with .6% salt much the same as Chilo and Ick. Again I would suggest 14 days at .6%. This will not harm the fish and most likely will eradicate Trichy.

As is often the case a safe alternative which is proven effective is ProformC. Using the label directions for three treatments over three days with 25% water changes each day is effective but I like to add a final ProformC treatment and let it stand for a few days before scraping and scoping for remaining parasites.

I know that Potassium Permanganate can be very effective on this and many other parasites. The problem in suggesting it is that few people actually know the true number of gallons(or litres)in their pond or quarantine tank. So I would suggest that we stay with what will work, and is fairly safe overall.

cindy
07-14-2010, 11:50 AM
flukes

Gill flukes are egg layers, harder to kill. Skin flukes carry a fully formed fluke inside, get the parent, get the baby.

Karl S: Praziquantel: Gill and Skin Flukes: Praziquantel must be ingested by the fluke to work. The dosage is one gram per 100 gallons of water. Currently the directions suggest using level tablespoons to measure the product. That is a mistake. In my experience a level tablespoon may hold anywhere from 2.5 to 4.5 grams of product. Not only is this wasteful and inaccurate; it is also very expensive. Please use a gram scale. Calibrate it often.

Since it does not mix readily with water a label dosage ProformC may be used, or it can be dosed with the ProformC as part of the treatment described above. Once it is fully dissolved it does not seem to filter out or precipitate. It simply degrades over time. When using Praziquantel, the water temperature should be in the mid-seventies(US). The first and all succeeding treatments should last seven days each whether treating for gill flukes(Dactylogyrus) or skin flukes(Gyrodactylus). 25% water changes should be made between treatments. Redosing will immediately bring it to the strength needed to kill flukes. I strongly recommend a third or even fourth application of this product due to the life cycle of the flukes as well as the thickness of the slime coat on Koi. In colder waters (60*F to 70*F) a fourth application is usually necessary when treating for gill flukes. Because of the cost of Praziquantel and the reduced treatment time it is well worth the effort to bring the temperature up to optimum. Another way to reduce cost is to simply lower the water in the container or pond to be treated.

Organphosphates-Fluke Tabs:Fluke Tabs work well in waters where the Kh is less than 170ppm. Above that the poison is bound by the water and becomes ineffective. Attempts at double and triple dosing in high Kh waters results in killing the flukes AND the fish.

Fenbendazole: An older type dewormer which seems to work at times, the dosage is 1 gram per 100 gallons and is used the same way as Praziquantel.

Duncan Supaverm UK 1 ml per 100 gallons US 1 ml per 120 gallons*Supaverm can burn koi* recommend the UK dosage

Flubenol 5% (pig wormer) Supaverm is a sheep wormer:cool3: Comes in a powder must be dissolved in acetone - dosage pending

doc J: Control of flukes has become increasingly easy with contemporary medicine. Potassium permanganate has been shown to be effective when applied as an eight hour bath at one gram per hundred gallons (2 ppm) or when dosed daily at 2 ppm for five days consecutively. Alternatively, some have found that despite it's negative effects on fish and filter, that Formalin is effective in eradication of fluke adults, with a second treatment (three days later) serving as clean-up for the emerging young. Droncit Tablets from the Veterinarian are superb at clearing Flukes in stable, heavily planted Discus tanks, and finally, Fluke Tabs® (Aquarium Products, Glen Burnie MD) have also shown strong effect in warmer water at one tablet per ten gallons applied in two treatments 4 days apart.
PRAZI WORKS THE VERY http://koivet.com/a_flukes_koi_parasite.html

cindy
07-14-2010, 04:32 PM
FISH LICE AND ANCHOR WORM

One word - Dimilin
Karl
Diflubenzuron 25% wettable powder:

Actually this is an insecticide for greenhouse use. This powder works well in eradicating anchor worm(Lernea)and fish lice(Argulus). One gram will treat 3000 gallons. It is quite forgiving and an overdose usually will not cause irrepairable harm. The parasites should be removed by soaking them in iodine and pulling them carefully with a tweezers. Sedating the fish will prevent uncontrolled thrashing and further damage to the fish during this process. No ill effect is noted from sedation.

There are liquid forms (Dimilin) on the market. Follow the label directions.

cindy
07-14-2010, 04:33 PM
I'll bring my Dr. st.ernes book in the am

Marilyn
07-14-2010, 04:37 PM
Nice to see this updating. Thank you Cindy!
How about info on Bacterial Gill Disease?

cindy
07-14-2010, 04:40 PM
will do, starting with parasites and I'll move on to ulcers and bacterial

andres58
07-14-2010, 05:04 PM
very very helpful....thanks Cindy. Maybe a sticky for each pathogen?

KoiValley
07-15-2010, 08:08 AM
Doc Johnson's usage of .3% salt to clear Chilodonella is outdated. That's the problem with books. By the time they are printed and distributed they are out of date. Keep that in mind when you are reading of referring to koi health books. Chilodonella will clear with .6% salt over a treatment time of 14 days. If water changes need to be done during that time, remember to add salt back to .6%.

Karl

KoiValley
07-15-2010, 08:14 AM
Diflubenzuron 25% wettable powder:

Actually this is an insecticide for greenhouse use. This powder works well in eradicating anchor worm(Lernea)and fish lice(Argulus). One gram will treat 3000 gallons. It is quite forgiving and an overdose usually will not cause irrepairable harm. The parasites should be removed by soaking them in iodine and pulling them carefully with a tweezers. Sedating the fish will prevent uncontrolled thrashing and further damage to the fish during this process. No ill effect is noted from sedation.

There are liquid forms (Dimilin) on the market. Follow the label directions.

Noahsnana
07-15-2010, 12:51 PM
Thought I would add this from Brett RE:Costia....


Fishbreeder Resident fisheries biologist Join Date: Dec 2004Location: Liverpool, TexasPosts: 331

Proform C apparently does not work all that well, I hear the same tale again and again.What works for me at my farm...I use 50 ppm of formalin and 0.1 ppm of malachite green for one hour, then 25 ppm formalin and 0.1 ppm malachite green for one more hour, then the costia are gone.To do this...Using regular formalin (37% fromaldehyde) put 20 ml per 100 USG of storage capacity (pond plus filters). You must circulate the treatment through the filters. Using stock solution of MG....Make stock solution by adding exactly 14.5 grams of MG to one gallon of water and dissolve. Using this stock solution, add 10 ml per 100 USG storage capacity to the pond that has the formalin already added.Wait one hour. Remove exactly half the pond water and replace. This brings the formalin concentration down to 25 ppm and the MG down to 0.05 ppm.. Now, you add back another 5 ml per 100 USG of the MG stock solution to bring the concentration back to 0.1 ppm. Wait one hour and change half the water again. Costia will be gone.Another scenario is to add 10 ml per 100 USG of formalin as well as 10 ml per 100 USG of the MG and let it sey in the water fro 24 hours then change out about 40% of the water.Disclaimer: If you kill your fish, you killed your fish, not me. Nobody has to do anything I say, you take this advice, cause a problem, you got a problem.Brett

cindy
07-15-2010, 12:54 PM
thank you, I'll add all the advise.

I know doc j used to use salt for everything and it worked till the bugs got salt resistant.

I forgot my St. Ernes book.

cindy
07-15-2010, 01:03 PM
Karl, I didn't see your treatment for trich

KoiValley
07-15-2010, 07:51 PM
Karl, I didn't see your treatment for trich

Here it is:

Trichodina can be treated with .6% salt much the same as Chilo and Ick. Again I would suggest 14 days at .6%. This will not harm the fish and most likely will eradicate Trichy.

As is often the case a safe alternative which is proven effective is ProformC. Using the label directions for three treatments over three days with 25% water changes each day is effective but I like to add a final ProformC treatment and let it stand for a few days before scraping and scoping for remaining parasites.

I know that Potassium Permanganate can be very effective on this and many other parasites. The problem in suggesting it is that few people actually know the true number of gallons(or litres)in their pond or quarantine tank. So I would suggest that we stay with what will work, and is fairly safe overall.

andres58
07-15-2010, 09:55 PM
How about some pictures associated with each parasite for identification?....great work guys......

cindy
07-15-2010, 11:09 PM
Jorge, I might combine my parasite thread pics and identification and symptoms with it, good idea.

I'd like to eventually set it up where you click "costia" or the symptom and it comes up

Thanks Karl

majederr
07-16-2010, 09:25 AM
Not that I have much experience here but Minn Finn and its use for Costia is definitely worth a mention. Just saying.

thefishlady
06-25-2011, 12:56 AM
Great list, if I may add to it based only on experiences and low resulting mortality. MinnFinn was studied my Nick StErne and he did find that 5 or so treatments of MinnFinn did wipe out Ich, he & I had a long discussion about his finding in San Diego a couple of years ago.
Lice & anchor worm are eradicated by introducing gambiosa, they will like the Pilot fish, eat the bugs off of the Koi; I have not seen lice a/o anchor worm in over 25 years. * All ponds that I maintain have gambiosa (Mosquito fish), thus no need to worry or ever treat with organo-phosphates which are lethal for fish & the environment.
Pro Form kills more fish than bugs, MinnFinn works for flukes, Costia, Ich and when I'm feeling a cold coming on; I sniff it and do not get sick...Wild, I know but what do you expect from a California Koi Kichi ?

NORTHSTAR423
01-20-2013, 11:48 PM
What type of salt ? Like common table salt

Russell Peters
01-21-2013, 12:32 AM
What type of salt ? Like common table salt

No, it has to be non-iodized, chemical free salt like you can get in the 50lb bags at Home Depot.

lovin_chevy84
01-21-2013, 12:35 AM
They're like 10$ a bag if I remember right. I got the bag called Crystals or something.
No, it has to be non-iodized, chemical free salt like you can get in the 50lb bags at Home Depot.

Russell Peters
01-21-2013, 12:51 AM
They're like 10$ a bag if I remember right. I got the bag called Crystals or something.

It's $4.59 a bag here...

NORTHSTAR423
01-21-2013, 08:30 AM
ok thanks

Russell Peters
01-21-2013, 12:38 PM
ok thanks

:yo:

Billy Pounds
01-21-2013, 01:53 PM
Gambusia is mosquito fish, poecilia is guppy...gambiosa is incorrect...sorry...as a Latin major....incorrect scientific
classifications drive me crazy

NORTHSTAR423
01-25-2013, 10:24 AM
Add one teaspoon of salt per gallon.
5. Twelve hours later, add another one teaspoon of salt per gallon.
6. Twelve hours later, add another one teaspoon of salt per gallon.

? Question if i am under standing the above correctly 3 doses of salt at 1 teaspoon per gallon make the .3 for salt?

If so 2 teaspoons would be .6 For salt. Question i put 2 teaspoons per gallon in my large tanks today.!!!!! now tomorrow or 12 hours from now do i just add the same amount of salt to the tanks or do i have to do 25% water change first then add salt to .6 and do the water change Within 48-60 hours after the third salt application

icu2
01-25-2013, 11:14 AM
I don't know how much per gallon, because we're usually adding it to 100's of gallons, but
it takes about 2.5 pounds/100 gallon to bring the salinity to .3%.

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/koicalcs.php

Best to get a salinity meter too.

NORTHSTAR423
01-25-2013, 02:31 PM
I don't know how much per gallon, because we're usually adding it to 100's of gallons, but
it takes about 2.5 pounds/100 gallon to bring the salinity to .3%. Here's a great site to help:

http://www.cnykoi.com/calculators/calcsalt.asp

Best to get a salinity meter too.

yes i do truly thank you for this info northstar i will get me one thats for sure

RichToyBox
01-25-2013, 08:45 PM
I just did the calculations and 1 level measuring teaspoon (5ml) should be about 6 grams and that added to one gallon (128 ounces) (3630 grams) would give about 0.15 to 0.17%, so 3 would give about .5% and for therapeutic treatments I would go with 4 teaspoons per gallon, or about 0.65%.

thefishlady
05-19-2013, 11:32 PM
SCARY list of meds. If you have lice or anchorworm, use gambiosa to eat them off your koi. Forget meds.
For most of the other stuff, use BIODEGRADABLE meds such as MinnFinn. At least your fish wont die of cancer once cleared of costia, flukes or the likes. I haven't use any cancer causing meds in years, I'm against formalin & malachite green which is banned in many states. Also, where does your treated water go once you are done w/your pond treatment? Down stream and it will kill many valuable creatures there. Think of the consequences of using such toxic meds. I have managed to keep fish alive for 30 + yrs w/o using all the "traditional" meds. MinnFinn is the only one I will use in Q tanks.