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kdmatrix
03-10-2009, 07:59 PM
Cheapskate!:harhar::harhar::harhar::harhar:

Billy
03-10-2009, 10:26 PM
I tried Sodium percarbonate and didn't care much for it. I switched to Baquacil Oxidizer to get rid of string algae. I use 1 cup per 2000 gallons of pond water every other day till I see the algae is gone. It takes about 3 to 4 treatments if your algae is bad. Mine was so bad last year that my BD's plugged up.

waterlover
03-12-2009, 12:49 PM
waterlover - does it work as "teeth whitening" too? Wondering... :eek1::confused: That would save a lot of $$$$ :punk1:

It's probably a little too strong to risk on your gums. I didn't wear gloves when I was cleaning my shower with it, but had to brush off a few crystals that started to burn a little.

Roddy Conrad
03-12-2009, 06:30 PM
The safety of both sodium percarbonate and hydrogen peroxide is highly dependent on strength or concentration.

The 3% peroxide from the "let's be blonds" aisle at Walmart is unlikely to hurt anyone, unless they leave it on their hair too long and become a whiter shade than blond.

The high strength peroxide sold as Baquacil oxidizer will burn the skin on contact seriously and quickly.

Crystals of sodium percarbonante will burn if left there on wet skin for any length of time.

kdmatrix
03-12-2009, 06:56 PM
It's probably a little too strong to risk on your gums. I didn't wear gloves when I was cleaning my shower with it, but had to brush off a few crystals that started to burn a little.I was just joking around!... :D::D:

lomaponder
03-12-2009, 09:11 PM
The safety of both sodium percarbonate and hydrogen peroxide is highly dependent on strength or concentration.

The 3% peroxide from the "let's be blonds" aisle at Walmart is unlikely to hurt anyone, unless they leave it on their hair too long and become a whiter shade than blond.

The high strength peroxide sold as Baquacil oxidizer will burn the skin on contact seriously and quickly.

Crystals of sodium percarbonante will burn if left there on wet skin for any length of time.

So Roddy,

Are you saying the days of PP treatment are waning? Or each (SP and PP) has its place in Pond management? Is SP beneficial for spring ramp-up? ("Areo and Psydo Alley" as our local KHA person calls it) to keep the bad bacteria at bay (actually knock it down) or is PP still the best option for us "dirty pond-keepers" (my hand is raised) and proactive treating of early stage infection in our fish.

I have 4/6 of a case of high grade PP still, and have become quite good at administering it to my ponds. But is SP the way to go. As I heard from the Vet Docs. at the AKCA Seminar here in San Diego; they are "strongly" encouraging HP and discouraging PP.

Your comments if you please :cool3:

lomaponder
03-15-2009, 03:08 PM
So Roddy,

Are you saying the days of PP treatment are waning? Or each (SP and PP) has its place in Pond management? Is SP beneficial for spring ramp-up? ("Areo and Psydo Alley" as our local KHA person calls it) to keep the bad bacteria at bay (actually knock it down) or is PP still the best option for us "dirty pond-keepers" (my hand is raised) and proactive treating of early stage infection in our fish.

I have 4/6 of a case of high grade PP still, and have become quite good at administering it to my ponds. But is SP the way to go. As I heard from the Vet Docs. at the AKCA Seminar here in San Diego; they are "strongly" encouraging HP and discouraging PP.

Your comments if you please :cool3:

bump :yes:

Roddy Conrad
03-15-2009, 04:34 PM
If the objective is to kill algae, your choice of hydrogen peroxide or sodium percarbonate will work much faster than PP and is safer for the fish present.

If there is no algae to control, and the objective is to clean the water up to get ready for parasite eradication, then PP is the choice for that purpose. While PP WILL clean up algae from ponds, it is not as practical for that purpose as hydrogen peroxide or sodium percarbonate.

If the pond has no algae, I see no purpose for the use of hydrogen peroxide or sodium percarbonate, other than perhaps as a choice for getting rid of brown color at the end of a PP treatment.

I personally use Baquacil oxidizer form of hydrogen peroxide for any need to kill out nasty messes of string algae in our West Virginia Spring ponding season. I used sodium percarbonate for that purpose for several years until I discovered how cheap and readily available high strength hydrogen peroxide is as Baquacil oxidizer.

I personally still use PP to clean water in our koi ponds rather than exchange water all through the year. And I use PP to clean up the koi pond really well just before a parasite killing regime.

Hydrogen peroxide can be dosed up to 100 ppm to kill algae without harming fish, while PP is limiited to about 3 ppm. So hydrogen peoxide can be dose high enough to kill a bunch of algae in a hurry, namely in an hour or two all of it can be quite dead. However, hydrogen peroxide does not match PP's strength for oxidizing DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) in the water. Either PP and hydrogen peroxide will kill parasites at recommended dose levels, and both of them are actually used for that purpose. PP is usually more effective than hydrogen peroxide and will kill a bigger range of parasites.

But the peroxide or sodium percarbonate is the cat's meow for killing out string algae RIGHT NOW.

As an example, we run two "water garden" ponds full of plants and fish that do not have the elaborate filtration systems I keep on our two main koi ponds. These two water garden ponds usually get a nasty mess of string algae in the Spring when the water temperature is just perfect for string algae blooms.

I used to kill out the algae with PP. I would put a couple of ORP probes in the pond to be cleaned, connect an air pump and big air stone assembly, and boil it up good while charging PP to kill out the string algae. These regimes normally required 10 to 20 sequential dose of PP on a given day before I had oxidized all the string algae and the pond stopped using up the PP dose. So I stood there, putting another 2 ppm PP charge every few minutes until the purple color stopped fading, and the ORP meter reading stopped rapidly dropping after a PP charge. Yes, you read correctly, I would dose a total of 20 to 40 ppm on a given day, that does not hurt the fish IF all the PP is rapidly used up, but that procedure is just not safe in the hands of any "normal" ponder. I used it myself for many years, and occasionally would talk about it, but anytime I did talk about it, someone would misunderstand and go kill a pond full of fish trying to imitate the treatment.

Then someone asked me one day to look up the chemical composition of one of the leading branded products specifically for string algae control. It took me about 30 seconds surfing around to figure out this pricey stuff was just generic sodium percarbonate, which is really, really cheap when bought as the generic chemical.

So I used the sodium percarbonate basically at the bottle label dose for the branded sodium percarbonate for algae control

Then I discovered that strong hydrogen peroxide is available everywhere and very cheap when labeled as Baquacil oxidizer for swimming pools and spas. Okay, that is even cheaper than generic sodium percarbonate, and has the advantage that it does not drive the pH high, which sodium percarbonate certainly does.

If this is not clear, please ask questions! What is clear to me is seldom so clear to non-chemists!

hacnp
03-15-2009, 06:57 PM
Baquacil oxidizer could be used to reverse PP treatments I take it. If so what would be the difference in amount needed?

The reason I ask is I do remote treatment much as you do Roddy with the exception that I can only treat for 2-3 hours as the containor is my settlement and I do not want to stop flow to the bio and pond for more than that amount of time. Hence, I do remote treatment at 20 to 40 PPM and reverse before resuming filtration.

Roddy Conrad
03-15-2009, 07:12 PM
Ken, be very specific so I get the question exactly right.

You are treating water with PP only in the settlement tank and stopping flow to do so, right? If so, throw in 100 ml of the Baquacil oxidizer and see if all the purple and pink are gone in less than 10 minutes with aeration. If so, the PP is gone. If not, add another 100 ml.

hacnp
03-15-2009, 10:22 PM
Ken, be very specific so I get the question exactly right.

You are treating water with PP only in the settlement tank and stopping flow to do so, right? If so, throw in 100 ml of the Baquacil oxidizer and see if all the purple and pink are gone in less than 10 minutes with aeration. If so, the PP is gone. If not, add another 100 ml.

No fish are exposed to any PP during this process. Only water in the settlement tank with all pumps shut off is treated, with 20 to 40 PPM of PP.

lomaponder
03-15-2009, 11:14 PM
I'll go looking for the Baquacil oxidizer and see how it works on my "spring algae rope", :eek1:

Also, thank you for your discussion of holding tanks and the use of PP to treat / recycle pond water. Here in the southwest, it is becoming a hot topic for ponders.

sworley
03-28-2009, 09:44 PM
Where do you find these chemicals? Would Walmart or a drugstore have them? Thanks

Roddy Conrad
03-28-2009, 10:58 PM
Walmart or a drug store sells 3% hydrogen peroxide. Suggested dose for a bad algae infestation is a quart of the 3% hydrogen peroxide per 1000 gallons pond water per day until the algae is all dead, then stop the hydrogen peroxide additions.

Pool stores and hot tub stores sell 27% hydrogen peroxide as Baquacil oxidizer. Suggested dose is 100 ml per 1000 gallons of pond water per day to kill out bad algae infestations, stop as soon as the algae comes under control.

There is seldom a local merchant selling generic sodium percarbonate, usually that needs to be ordered on line. Normal doses are a half pound to a pound of sodium percarbonate per 1000 gallons pond water per day until the algae comes under control, then stop the additions.

When adding any one of these three algae killing agents, please quickly remove with nets all the nasty mess of dead crud that quickly floats to the top of the water when the hydrogen peroxide from the treatment boils up the stuff killing it and causing it to float to the top. If you don't remove the dead mess it is killing, the decay of all that dead mess of algae can give poor water quality. The smaller the holes in the net, the more effective the removal of the floating dead stuff will be when practicing this spring cleanup act.

Norm Walsh
03-28-2009, 11:21 PM
Roddy, In the thread there is mention of rising Ph levels with the use of SP. I started using it and had the Ph climb to over 9. then did a water change.

If using SP for consectutive days, what's the best way to handle the Ph problem?

IMSALSMOM
03-28-2009, 11:28 PM
Where do you find these chemicals? Would Walmart or a drugstore have them? Thanks

The Chemistry Store online sells Sodium Percarbonate and Sodium Thiosulfate
and PP - I get my PP at Lowes.

stephen44
03-29-2009, 03:21 PM
I get my PP at Lowes.

what dept ?

Kris
03-29-2009, 08:32 PM
What does the sodium do to the salt level of the pond?

Roddy Conrad
03-29-2009, 08:43 PM
Roddy, In the thread there is mention of rising Ph levels with the use of SP. I started using it and had the Ph climb to over 9. then did a water change.

If using SP for consectutive days, what's the best way to handle the Ph problem?

If the GH is below 80 ppm, and the KH or alkalinity is above 100 ppm, usually the addition of one pound of calcium chloride flake per 1000 gallons of water will bring the pH back down below 9. Expect a milky appearance after adding the calcium chloride flake, since the way calcium chloride flake lowes pH is to precipitate calcium carbonate. The precipitation of the calcium carbonate, while active, may turn the pond into a milk appearance. This milky appearance after adding calcium chloride flake is DESIRABLE and will help the fish by lowering the pH of the water.

Roddy Conrad
03-29-2009, 08:47 PM
What does the sodium do to the salt level of the pond?

Well, to quote Bill Clinton, it depends on the meaning of the word salt.

Salt is a generic term for lots of different chemical compounds.

If by salt you mean sodium chloride, adding sodium percarbonate adds no chloride so has no effect on the sodium chloride salt level of the water in the pond.

If by salt you mean a TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) reading, adding sodium percarbonate may increase of decrease the TDS reading depending on the particulars of the pond.

So I can't give you a generic answer to the question quoted above.

thedugan
03-29-2009, 09:03 PM
I use green clean all the time for string algee. Works great but its is very $$$$.

So what is the treatment using Sodium Percarb.? Same as Green Clean?

Are we sure its safe for fish and plants.

clerky96
03-30-2009, 01:37 PM
Roddy, a few days ago I posted a question for you about Clear Comfort Stabilizer. I bought it at a pool supply and they assurred me that their chemist researched it and that it is exactly the same as Baquacil Oxidizer, just a different brand. They know it is for my fish pond.
Here is a link to the MSDS for the product. http://skylineadvantage.com/pages/MSDS/Omni/pool%20chem/1722851.PDF
I couldn't find a MSDS for Baquacil, so I couldn't compare the two.
Would you please check it out for me and see what you think? I don't want to use it until I get your opinion. It does say near the end of the MSDS that it could be toxic to fish. I am assuming they are meaning that if not used properly it could kill fish.
I want to use it because my pond is very brown and murky. Because of string algae issues, I did a complete water change last year. I hadn't been on this site to read about SP or I would have tried that. My pond went murky after the refilling, and never really cleared. This was a first for me, as usually after the initial algae bloom, the pond clears and stays clear. However, my husband had some severe health problems for most of the summer and the pond just got put on the back burner. I didn't do any routine maintenance, ie cleaning filters, etc. I did get the netting on last fall, but some leaves got under the netting. I think I have netted most of them out (since so murky can't really tell if I have them all). No rocks in the pond. Bottom drain is working fine. I have calculated the dosage to be 2/3 cup for my 1600 gallon pond.
I would appreciate any help you can give; even if it is only your opinion. Thanks.
Donna

NevadaKoi
05-31-2009, 11:53 PM
Well I tried the Baquacil Oxidizer today for a 5670 gallon pond today using only 100 ml per 1000 gallons which should be about 19.2 fl. oz. of Baquacil. Absolutely nothing happened, so I'm going to step it up to 200 ml per 1000 gallons later this week. Either my pond gallonage is off...or 100 ml is not enough for the moderate string algae I have. Anyone have the same happen to them? Thx!

Wayne

NevadaKoi
06-05-2009, 04:28 PM
I tried the Baquacil Oxidizer again yesterday with an increased dosage and didn't have any algae come up to the surface. That's when I started ready into this more. I have MUCH more carpet algae (about 1/2" to 1" around pond shell) than I do string algae. Will Baquacil do anything to the carpet algae...or am I spinning my wheels...and possibly need to run down to Lowes to get some PP to counteract the Baquacil?

Is carpet algae the same as string algae only shorter? Need some more details here. Thx!

Wayne

Roddy Conrad
06-05-2009, 07:36 PM
Roddy, a few days ago I posted a question for you about Clear Comfort Stabilizer. I bought it at a pool supply and they assurred me that their chemist researched it and that it is exactly the same as Baquacil Oxidizer, just a different brand. They know it is for my fish pond.
Here is a link to the MSDS for the product. http://skylineadvantage.com/pages/MSDS/Omni/pool%20chem/1722851.PDF
I couldn't find a MSDS for Baquacil, so I couldn't compare the two.
Would you please check it out for me and see what you think? I don't want to use it until I get your opinion. It does say near the end of the MSDS that it could be toxic to fish. I am assuming they are meaning that if not used properly it could kill fish.
I want to use it because my pond is very brown and murky. Because of string algae issues, I did a complete water change last year. I hadn't been on this site to read about SP or I would have tried that. My pond went murky after the refilling, and never really cleared. This was a first for me, as usually after the initial algae bloom, the pond clears and stays clear. However, my husband had some severe health problems for most of the summer and the pond just got put on the back burner. I didn't do any routine maintenance, ie cleaning filters, etc. I did get the netting on last fall, but some leaves got under the netting. I think I have netted most of them out (since so murky can't really tell if I have them all). No rocks in the pond. Bottom drain is working fine. I have calculated the dosage to be 2/3 cup for my 1600 gallon pond.
I would appreciate any help you can give; even if it is only your opinion. Thanks.
Donna

This is Roddy on vqacation in Seward, Alaska on vacation.

This is exactly the right product since it is simply 27% hydrogen peroxide. Suggest you consider limiting doses of it to 100 ml per 1000 gallons and use when needed for algae control.

Have not had internet connection of any use while sailing the seas of Alaska, am in an internet cafe in Seward for a few minutes checking in.

Roddy Conrad

IMSALSMOM
06-06-2009, 01:27 PM
what dept ?
Sorry so late answer, PP at Lowe's (Not all Lowe's carry it) is in a department that sells it for Iron Filters, I can't remember the exact dept. I asked someone and he pointed me straight to it. I think it was in or close to cleaning products. You can check online to see if a store near you sells it. The store I usually go to doesn't but another nearby store does.

IMPALA
06-09-2009, 09:43 PM
Walmart or a drug store sells 3% hydrogen peroxide. Suggested dose for a bad algae infestation is a quart of the 3% hydrogen peroxide per 1000 gallons pond water per day until the algae is all dead, then stop the hydrogen peroxide additions.

Pool stores and hot tub stores sell 27% hydrogen peroxide as Baquacil oxidizer. Suggested dose is 100 ml per 1000 gallons of pond water per day to kill out bad algae infestations, stop as soon as the algae comes under control.

There is seldom a local merchant selling generic sodium percarbonate, usually that needs to be ordered on line. Normal doses are a half pound to a pound of sodium percarbonate per 1000 gallons pond water per day until the algae comes under control, then stop the additions.

When adding any one of these three algae killing agents, please quickly remove with nets all the nasty mess of dead crud that quickly floats to the top of the water when the hydrogen peroxide from the treatment boils up the stuff killing it and causing it to float to the top. If you don't remove the dead mess it is killing, the decay of all that dead mess of algae can give poor water quality. The smaller the holes in the net, the more effective the removal of the floating dead stuff will be when practicing this spring cleanup act.

Pool stores and hot tub stores sell 27% hydrogen peroxide as Baquacil oxidizer. Suggested dose is 100 ml per 1000 gallons of pond water per day to kill out bad algae infestations, stop as soon as the algae comes under control

this is the best answer for string algae ?

Roddy Conrad
06-10-2009, 03:02 PM
I wrote this in a private message then decided to post it since the comments may be useful to others.

Assume 4000 gallons pond volume and 27% hydrogen peroxide to calculate the dose.



4000 gallons times 8.3 pounds per gallon times 454 grams per pound gives 15 million grams of water in a 4000 gallon pond so a 1 ppm dose of something is 15 grams of the thing. At 27% strength of Baquacil oxidizer, to get an active dose of 1 ppm active hydrogen peroxide will require 15 grams /.27 = 55 grams of the Baquacil oxidizer.



But we want enough hydrogen peroxide to see some algae die.



At 25 ppm active hydrogen peroxide dose for 4000 gallons we need 55 times 25 = 1,375 grams or over a liter of the Baquacil oxidizer to kill some algae. I suggest you be conservative and at first only add half a liter of the 27% strength or two cups. If that does not seem to do anything, add two more cups in a few hours.



The LC50 (Lethal concentration that kills half the fish) for a two hour interval is 1000 ppm which would be several gallons of the Baquacil oxidizer in 4000 gallons. The 24 hour LC50 is 100 ppm which is 5 liters or a little more than a gallon per 4000 gallons. One ponder actually dumped a gallon of the Baquacil oxisizer into his 4000 gallon pond, in a few days a few of the koi died from the overdose. So that is too much. The 4 day LC50 is 25 ppm or a dose of 1.375 liters or about a quart and a half. That is relatively safe and will kill a lot of algae in a 4000 gallon pond. 25 ppm dose in an algae ridden pond should be consumed before it does any fish damage. If you are adventursome and want the algae dead in a hurry, use that dose. If you are terribly conservative, try doses of two cups at a time spaced half a day apart until the algae comes under control.



Roddy

skydiverfloyd
06-11-2009, 07:33 AM
Can the baquacil oxidizer be used to stop a pp treatment and clear the brown water and if so how much?

Jack

Roddy Conrad
06-11-2009, 04:59 PM
Yes, but it does not take much of the Baquacil oxidizer to stop a PP treatment and get rid of the brown color of spent PP. I suggest you try 100 ml of the Baquacil Oxidizer per 1000 gallons of pond water for that purpose, that should be a gracious plenty, and it is what I use for that purpose and have done so for several years now. Add it (the hydrogen peroxide in the Baquacil) slowly so the ORP (Oxidation Reduction Potential) does not change so fast the fish go into shock. The ORP will drop from a reading of about 500 with active PP to a value of 160 to 200 with active Baquacil hydrogen peroxide. Suggest you add it a little at a time over a period of an hour or more. The worst of the brown color will be gone in minutes, much more of it overnight. You shouldn't need any more than that.

zek
06-11-2009, 05:11 PM
Roddy,

Does Baquacil/HP increase PH like SP?

I like using SP, but don't like going up in the 9's for PH.

Roddy Conrad
06-11-2009, 09:28 PM
Hydrogen peroxide as Baquacil (27% strength) or simple generic 3% hydrogen peroxide from Walmart (and lots of other places) has no significant effect on pond pH. Sodium percarbonate does usually increase pH significantly, that can normally be resolved by addition of calcium chloride flake if the pH is too high from sodium percarbonate use.

zek
06-11-2009, 10:15 PM
Thanks Roddy, that's good to know.

I always use calcium chloride with the SP, but it seems like the PH was always close to 9. This last year the pond has settled out and I only did an initial cleaning with SP and have not had any other issues. I think I'll go with the Baquacil next time.

IMPALA
06-11-2009, 11:18 PM
I wrote this in a private message then decided to post it since the comments may be useful to others.

Assume 4000 gallons pond volume and 27% hydrogen peroxide to calculate the dose.



4000 gallons times 8.3 pounds per gallon times 454 grams per pound gives 15 million grams of water in a 4000 gallon pond so a 1 ppm dose of something is 15 grams of the thing. At 27% strength of Baquacil oxidizer, to get an active dose of 1 ppm active hydrogen peroxide will require 15 grams /.27 = 55 grams of the Baquacil oxidizer.



But we want enough hydrogen peroxide to see some algae die.



At 25 ppm active hydrogen peroxide dose for 4000 gallons we need 55 times 25 = 1,375 grams or over a liter of the Baquacil oxidizer to kill some algae. I suggest you be conservative and at first only add half a liter of the 27% strength or two cups. If that does not seem to do anything, add two more cups in a few hours.



The LC50 (Lethal concentration that kills half the fish) for a two hour interval is 1000 ppm which would be several gallons of the Baquacil oxidizer in 4000 gallons. The 24 hour LC50 is 100 ppm which is 5 liters or a little more than a gallon per 4000 gallons. One ponder actually dumped a gallon of the Baquacil oxisizer into his 4000 gallon pond, in a few days a few of the koi died from the overdose. So that is too much. The 4 day LC50 is 25 ppm or a dose of 1.375 liters or about a quart and a half. That is relatively safe and will kill a lot of algae in a 4000 gallon pond. 25 ppm dose in an algae ridden pond should be consumed before it does any fish damage. If you are adventursome and want the algae dead in a hurry, use that dose. If you are terribly conservative, try doses of two cups at a time spaced half a day apart until the algae comes under control.



Roddy

thanks Roddy

minesh1
06-23-2009, 06:54 PM
So you'd want to add 100ml/1000gal each day for several days without water changes? Do you recommend a water change at the end of the treatment?

nedleigh
07-01-2009, 12:12 PM
So I used the sodium percarbonate basically at the bottle label dose for the branded sodium percarbonate for algae control

Then I discovered that strong hydrogen peroxide is available everywhere and very cheap when labeled as Baquacil oxidizer for swimming pools and spas. Okay, that is even cheaper than generic sodium percarbonate, and has the advantage that it does not drive the pH high, which sodium percarbonate certainly does.

If this is not clear, please ask questions! What is clear to me is seldom so clear to non-chemists!

Okay, so I've read this whole thread through for the second or third time, and I thought I understood things reasonably well, but now I'm back to confused.....

My take was that the various forms of string algae control being discussed here were all pretty much different implementations of sodium percarbonate, i.e., hydrogen peroxide. Whether it's Baquacil or Oxiclean or walmart 3%, the differences and preferences expressed are based on price per dose, convenience and what's available. (The sodium perborate is a slightly different case, but I'll leave that to the serious chemists to hash out....) For instance, my read between the lines is that Roddy likes the Baquacil because it is readily available near his house, meaning that it's effectively cheaper because there are no shipping and hazmat charges.

I was under the impression that sodium percarbonate is a solid form of hydrogen peroxide, yes? If I'm following the math right, generic SP works out as 98% hydrogen peroxide. But based on the mention of the pH movement above, I get the feeling that Baquacil Oxidizer (which is basically 27% strength HP, yes?) is somehow a different animal?

I can't seem to find Baquacil locally (on my little island here in the middle of the Pacific), so the next best thing I was able to locate was Oxiclean Free. (As far as I can tell, they reformulated a lot of the Oxiclean line in 2005 to include detergents, surfactants, perfumes, etc. The Free version seems to be the original formulation, which consists only of sodium percarbonate and sodium carbonate. According to the MSDS, the SP content is "50 - 70%" and the SC is "30 - 50%" - that's a rather broad range!)

Since my noobie pond set up allows me to isolate my fish from the water garden part where I was having a massive string algae outbreak, I decided to give the Oxiclean a try. I tried dosing at 25 ppm in two stages (4 oz and then another 4 oz into 1400 gallons over the course of a couple of hours) but nothing really floated to the top and I didn't see any fizzing even when I dropped the stuff directly onto the algae. I brushed down the pond and scooped up what I could, then was going to do a 25% water change afterwards. I noticed a fair amount of foam in the discharge water, so I drained it all and filled it with fresh (which amounted to a 50% water change), since I was concerned that there might ingredients not mentioned in the MSDS that were less than fish friendly.

Did I completely mis-read all this excellent info? Am I just a confused noobie? Any clarification would be appreciated......

Roddy Conrad
07-01-2009, 10:16 PM
Okay, so I've read this whole thread through for the second or third time, and I thought I understood things reasonably well, but now I'm back to confused.....

My take was that the various forms of string algae control being discussed here were all pretty much different implementations of sodium percarbonate, i.e., hydrogen peroxide. Whether it's Baquacil or Oxiclean or walmart 3%, the differences and preferences expressed are based on price per dose, convenience and what's available. (The sodium perborate is a slightly different case, but I'll leave that to the serious chemists to hash out....) For instance, my read between the lines is that Roddy likes the Baquacil because it is readily available near his house, meaning that it's effectively cheaper because there are no shipping and hazmat charges.

I was under the impression that sodium percarbonate is a solid form of hydrogen peroxide, yes? If I'm following the math right, generic SP works out as 98% hydrogen peroxide. But based on the mention of the pH movement above, I get the feeling that Baquacil Oxidizer (which is basically 27% strength HP, yes?) is somehow a different animal?

I can't seem to find Baquacil locally (on my little island here in the middle of the Pacific), so the next best thing I was able to locate was Oxiclean Free. (As far as I can tell, they reformulated a lot of the Oxiclean line in 2005 to include detergents, surfactants, perfumes, etc. The Free version seems to be the original formulation, which consists only of sodium percarbonate and sodium carbonate. According to the MSDS, the SP content is "50 - 70%" and the SC is "30 - 50%" - that's a rather broad range!)

Since my noobie pond set up allows me to isolate my fish from the water garden part where I was having a massive string algae outbreak, I decided to give the Oxiclean a try. I tried dosing at 25 ppm in two stages (4 oz and then another 4 oz into 1400 gallons over the course of a couple of hours) but nothing really floated to the top and I didn't see any fizzing even when I dropped the stuff directly onto the algae. I brushed down the pond and scooped up what I could, then was going to do a 25% water change afterwards. I noticed a fair amount of foam in the discharge water, so I drained it all and filled it with fresh (which amounted to a 50% water change), since I was concerned that there might ingredients not mentioned in the MSDS that were less than fish friendly.

Did I completely mis-read all this excellent info? Am I just a confused noobie? Any clarification would be appreciated......


You got it pretty much right.

SP or sodium percarbonate quickly hydrolyzes to hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate. Since sodium carbonate drives the pH up, use of SP provides a lot of hydrogen peroxide but tends to drive pH into the 9 to 10 range, which many folks don't like.

Enough hydrogen peroxide kills all forms of algae, too much of it can eventually kill fish, but that does not often occur since algae laden ponds rapidly consume hydrogen peroxide.

Joey S
07-01-2009, 10:26 PM
Hey Roddy...got a local pond with a major algae problem - specifically - Oscillatoria. This is a big public facility. oooohhhh, I don't think I'm ready to take this on, but if you help, I'll gather all the info. Could be a good learning experiment. :D:

Lots of basic problems to deal with...major water changes and water disposal. Source water with phosphates. Shallow water. Full Sun. Low oxygen levels. Lots of fun things to deal with.