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ben5020
01-03-2010, 05:46 PM
i have a male showa first one (15+-) and a female tancho showa second one (15+-), i am just wondering if i would have a good spawn with these two, would i get a fair amount of fry with the spawn, they are young, but i want to try it this season. i also have a male kohaku (18+-) i was thinking about adding into the mix, is that a good idea? let me know your opinions,

stephen
01-03-2010, 05:59 PM
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106303

Don't confuse us now:D::eek1:

ben5020
01-03-2010, 06:13 PM
sorry i first was curious about the babies amount then i figured why not get peoples opinion about the koi

Hirogoi
01-06-2010, 02:44 PM
Well they all have nice skin and seem pretty high quality, so... probably?

BruceP
01-07-2010, 12:25 PM
Wouldnt it be better to wait til they are older???

Joey S
01-07-2010, 12:35 PM
Wouldnt it be better to wait til they are older???That was my thought, but I've never bred my fish.

EricT
01-07-2010, 12:52 PM
That was my thought, but I've never bred my fish.

4 yrs for females
3 yrs for males.

best breeding age

Joey S
01-07-2010, 01:32 PM
3 yrs for females
2 yrs for males.

best breeding ageWhat is the basis for that statement? My research indicates otherwise. Here is one thought from a breeder:

Age of the fish does have direct implication on the size and hardness of the egg shells. Ideally, males should have an age of 3-5 years and females must be 4-6 years old. While younger females might produce eggs with thin shells, eggs from older females would be extremely hard, thus making it impossible for sperms to penetrate.

From another:

Another aspect that should be taken into consideration while choosing the indented parents is the age of the fish. As this effects the quality of the egg shells. Young Koi females produce eggs with very thin shells which might not survive; older fish on the other hand can produce eggs with to hard shells that the sperm canít penetrate them. The best age of a Koi that is used for breeding is 4-5 years although successful breeding might be possible with fish that are up to 15 years old.

And this:

However, one consideration must be recognized by all breeders: age of the fish. A young koi may be fertile, but the hatch which it produces of young fish is not strong. On the contrary, although a female may have a span of fertility over 15 years, as she ages, her eggs develop a tougher covering which sperm have difficulty in penetrating, so the hatch may be unpredictable and quixotic.

EricT
01-07-2010, 01:45 PM
What is the basis for that statement? My research indicates otherwise. Here is one thought from a breeder:

Age of the fish does have direct implication on the size and hardness of the egg shells. Ideally, males should have an age of 3-5 years and females must be 4-6 years old. While younger females might produce eggs with thin shells, eggs from older females would be extremely hard, thus making it impossible for sperms to penetrate.

From another:

Another aspect that should be taken into consideration while choosing the indented parents is the age of the fish. As this effects the quality of the egg shells. Young Koi females produce eggs with very thin shells which might not survive; older fish on the other hand can produce eggs with to hard shells that the sperm canít penetrate them. The best age of a Koi that is used for breeding is 4-5 years although successful breeding might be possible with fish that are up to 15 years old.

And this:

However, one consideration must be recognized by all breeders: age of the fish. A young koi may be fertile, but the hatch which it produces of young fish is not strong. On the contrary, although a female may have a span of fertility over 15 years, as she ages, her eggs develop a tougher covering which sperm have difficulty in penetrating, so the hatch may be unpredictable and quixotic.

they are all right, according to what i have experienced and researched.

Males can start at age 2. although its better at about 4-6
females can start at 3, although its better about 5-7

the younger they are, it is true their egg shells are thinner, and the older, the thicker they are.

it is better to pair up the koi with 1 female, and 2-3 males to get a good fertilization rate.

when breeding kohaku, culling should be done about 2 weeks or 1" and you should cull all black koi. then at about 3" you should look for pattern. cull all kohaku's with out any beni on the head, then from there, cull for patterns you like.

-Eric

Joey S
01-07-2010, 01:58 PM
Eric, not trying to be argumentative, but you said BEST BREEDING AGE in your first post. Now you indicate a different "best age". As to how many males, my research says NO more than two males to one female and of similar size. Three is more than two.

Please, don't make statements as fact unless you are certain of your facts.

ben5020
01-07-2010, 02:01 PM
i understand they might be borderline ready but i will give it a shot, is it a bad idea to throw the kohaku in the action?

EricT
01-07-2010, 02:03 PM
Eric, not trying to be argumentative, but you said BEST BREEDING AGE in your first post. Now you indicate a different "best age". As to how many males, my research says NO more than two males to one female and of similar size. Three is more than two.

Please, don't make statements as fact unless you are certain of your facts.

sorry, i messed up in the first post, but yes, 4-6 years is best.

we must be researching different places, because i have read that 2-3 is OK, although i would never recommend 3, it says its OK. I am just simply restating what i have read elsewhere.

Hirogoi
01-16-2010, 07:48 AM
sorry, i messed up in the first post, but yes, 4-6 years is best.

we must be researching different places, because i have read that 2-3 is OK, although i would never recommend 3, it says its OK. I am just simply restating what i have read elsewhere.



You are a dealer, the title of dealer means you should be someone trustworthy and reliable. It's okay to not know, but if you say something that is inaccurate and something goes wrong with people's fish it will reflect poorly on you. What you say to someone new to the hobby, who may not know you are a new dealer could be potentially dangerous to their fish if you are not positive. Now this may not be the case here specifically, but it's something to be aware of.

If you do not know and have never breed fish, it's probably best not to give advice on the subject.

Hirogoi
01-16-2010, 07:50 AM
i understand they might be borderline ready but i will give it a shot, is it a bad idea to throw the kohaku in the action?


I'd throw in the kohaku. They all seem more or less the same quality level to me, and they're all gosanke.

I'd just try the spawn out to see what you get, you'll learn from it no matter what so might as well try.