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kangakoi
12-20-2009, 10:17 PM
I've follow advice given by Mr D. Benbow and Mr Super Kindai to feed fry with natural food ie daphnia and water bugs for the first month of their live. so this year I throw a bunch of eggs into a raising pond with daphnia and a complete deadly coctail of a big bag of chicken manure, fry powder and baker yeast. The ammonia must have gone through the roof and the dahpnia was multiflied like crazy. fourty days later I emptied this pond and wow, what remarkable finding, the fry in here are three to four time biger than the fry that I raised used clean clear water.

Why is this so? would not the ammonia kill off the fry in this pond immediatelly as they hatch? not only they survived but they've grown a lot, lot more quicker then their sipling that raised in clean clear water?

Adaptation? or this is one of those mystery of 'faith' and should not be analy but just except? thank you Mr D.B, Mr S.D and everyone.
Kanga

Cowiche Ponder
12-21-2009, 02:24 AM
did you test for ammonia? Not sure why you would have any ammonia reading?

andrew davis
12-21-2009, 02:54 AM
When you overload pond water with fertilisers, manure, whatnot its pot luck you might trigger besides algae and any sort of bug that likes eutrophic water conditions, eg blood worms, maggot flies (they are darlings) blue green algae which can unpredictably produce the most insidious neurotoxic, mutagenic, carcinogenic poisons on the planet. It's something of a marvel carp can survive such risky conditions.

Regards, andy
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kangakoi
12-21-2009, 04:20 AM
Andy,

So I am on the right track recreated a smaller version of a "mud pond"? next question. How long can fry be kept in this condition? 60 days, cull then put back, 90 days cull then put back until they one year old?
did the fry adapted or some other(s) reason?

Cowiche Ponder.

I did not expect the eggs to hatch and fry to live so there were no tests done and I just trying out what other koi breeders around here did to gain some experient. I am now trying to search for answers to why we could keep fry in this kind of condition but not juvenial.

CHICHI
12-21-2009, 07:11 AM
If The Water Greened Up fairly quickly this would have mopped up any Ammonia and encouraged an abundance of Algae Consuming Protists :yes: all nourishing Food for the Fry ..

Dangerous though because of it`s PH C02 Influence :eek1: not to mention Nocturnal D.O :eek1:

Hatched "Brine Shrimp" are the Fry live food choice over here ..

Tommygug
12-21-2009, 08:32 AM
I have raised fry twice( 2 years) using similar techniques. I have also witnessed the ammonia spike. I don't know how the fry survive but as you did, my fry had great grow rates. I plan on doing another spawn in the spring using the same process.

kangakoi
12-21-2009, 09:36 PM
Hi all,

it is a mystery and a question of faith. We know it work but then how long can we keep push it? once I put the chicken manure in the water it turned dark brown and not green

Tommygug,

Once you done your first cull did you put them back to the same condition pond and raised further or you raised them in clean clear water?

Chi Chi,

The brine shrimp way is expensive and time consumming, I know it crazy and it only produce koi that only we can love but it work.

Andy

what say you?

Tommygug
12-21-2009, 10:42 PM
I got a little creative, I started a separate pond for raising daphnia. The grow out pond had green water (600 gal)and I trickled in about 50/75 gallons fresh water a day. My only regret was I kept too many fish, I should have culled more fry out. I was about to produce about a quart of daphnia a day for the fry until the weather was to hot.