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View Full Version : The WWKC show is over...now, an issue.



Brutuscz
12-08-2009, 08:37 PM
This just kind of irked me...and other competitors felt the same way. Some of the koi entered in the show had been sold, or were about to be sold. If you don't currently own the koi...or are selling it very soon, it should not be entered. I know that when I compete in the Pioneer Valley Show, we sign a document saying the koi entered are the owners pets, raised by the owner and not for sale. I like this rule...and think it should be implemented next year. There was no provision for this in the past competition...but, in the future, there should be something written. I don't mind if someone sells their koi 6 months down the road, but some were entered and already sold. I just don't see it as right.
I personally had photographed one of my fish to enter. Just before the show, it jumped out..and unfortunately died. I thought it was unethical to enter this photograph...as I did not own the koi any more.
I think we need this addressed for next years show.

pearlharborday
12-08-2009, 08:58 PM
some good points,,,,but as it is a internet show,it would be hard to regulate that.....I know some akca shows allow people to buy from vendors at the show and enter them on the spot....is that right, well I personally don't agree with that,but others think it's ok........there are even some who pay breeders to bring the fish to the shows and even pay the breeder to keep the fish all year round for them ....I don't like that policy either but some say it's ok..............

..personally I believe the true thing to be judged that gets over looked, is the hobbyist ability to keep koi at a competition level......so I would agree on a 6 month's before the show rule, in the hobbyist care.......as for if they plan to sell it ,I don't think that matter too much,,,,but again this my opinion and others may disagree......proper care and handling is part of the ride and even a greater reward for a hobbyist .....should dealers be able to compete with hobbyist well that is another ball of wax............honestly for this show,,,I think owning the fish as a personal pet before the show should be good enough..dealer or hobbyist...but it is all on the honor system here and we have to take the good with the bad ...............over all it was a great show and the super people putting this on ,did a wonderful job :bow::bow::bow:.................It is hard to make everyone happy..........congrats again to all the winners ........................pearl

David Smothers
12-08-2009, 09:01 PM
This just kind of irked me...and other competitors felt the same way. Some of the koi entered in the show had been sold, or were about to be sold. If you don't currently own the koi...or are selling it very soon, it should not be entered. I know that when I compete in the Pioneer Valley Show, we sign a document saying the koi entered are the owners pets, raised by the owner and not for sale. I like this rule...and think it should be implemented next year. There was no provision for this in the past competition...but, in the future, there should be something written. I don't mind if someone sells their koi 6 months down the road, but some were entered and already sold. I just don't see it as right.
I personally had photographed one of my fish to enter. Just before the show, it jumped out..and unfortunately died. I thought it was unethical to enter this photograph...as I did not own the koi any more.
I think we need this addressed for next years show.

I guess you are talking about me....all of the koi I entered are my koi and have not been sold....I only wish they had. I will be moving and at some point I will either sell or relocate to a mud pond for safe keeping. :cool3:

Joey S
12-08-2009, 09:04 PM
This just kind of irked me...and other competitors felt the same way. Some of the koi entered in the show had been sold, or were about to be sold. If you don't currently own the koi...or are selling it very soon, it should not be entered. I know that when I compete in the Pioneer Valley Show, we sign a document saying the koi entered are the owners pets, raised by the owner and not for sale. I like this rule...and think it should be implemented next year. There was no provision for this in the past competition...but, in the future, there should be something written. I don't mind if someone sells their koi 6 months down the road, but some were entered and already sold. I just don't see it as right.
I personally had photographed one of my fish to enter. Just before the show, it jumped out..and unfortunately died. I thought it was unethical to enter this photograph...as I did not own the koi any more.
I think we need this addressed for next years show.

I guess I can see your point - sort of - but why not bring this issue up to the committee BEFORE the show rather than complain afterwards. The rules were published clearly to everyone. I just wish you would have exponded on the issue before rather than after. :rolleyes:

Joey S
12-08-2009, 09:05 PM
Again...raise any issues BEFORE rather than after...Just seems like sour grapes after the fact and Nothing that the committee can address.

rosekoi
12-08-2009, 09:06 PM
Someone sounds like a sore:loser:

David Smothers
12-08-2009, 09:13 PM
I guess I can see your point - sort of - but why not bring this issue up to the committee BEFORE the show rather than complain afterwards. The rules were published clearly to everyone. I just wish you would have exponded on the issue before rather than after. :rolleyes:

You can see what point....IF you are talking about me, the koi are STILL owned by me and reside in my pond. End of freakin story....unless you are not talking about me and if not, let me know.

Here are the rules:

Rules for showing fish
This show is open only to members of Koiphen and the WWKC.
Each participant will have their own virtual tank.
Deadline for Entries is 11:59pm EST Nov 10th
All fish shown must be the personal and private property of the registrant.
The koi show is not open to koi professionals. For the purposes of this show, a koi professional is: "one who derives income from a koi hobby related business." Examples would be as follows:
Koi retailer or wholesaler (dealer)
Dry goods retailer or wholesaler - sells koi food, pond filtration supplies, is a pond installer, pond maintenance, etc. In general, provides direct hobby related items or service affecting the life of a koi;
An entrant must not have qualified as a koi professional for a period of one year prior to the show.
An immediate relative of a koi dealer or employee of a koi dealer may show their own personal koi, provided they have owned the koi for at least one year and they are not available for sale.
Any questions as to whether an entrant might fall into a particular category above, should be addressed to the Koi Show Chair.

Susan Reed
12-08-2009, 09:31 PM
2D of the rules states ďAll fish shown must be the personal and private property of the registrant.Ē



This rule is similar to that of many clubs, and was copied from the rules of the Mid-Atlantic Koi Club, and Charlotte. The fish are able to be purchased up to the end of benching, and there is no rule dealing with the disposition of the koi following the show.



I donít know that this is necessarily the best way, as it would be nice to say that the fish had to be in the personal possession of the owner for a minimum of a year, or some time, but that has not been the case for live shows, and is impossible to monitor or control.



But the rules were complied with and we are more than happy to have had the entrants and their fish. We do not believe that the time to discuss any problems with the last show is after the show is over, but if you are looking at trying to change the rules for next year, we look forward to discussing the issue within the committee


I request that this thread be closed and any other issues should be addressed privately to WWKC V K&GF Committee.

Thank You
Susan Reed

David Smothers
12-08-2009, 09:35 PM
2D of the rules states ďAll fish shown must be the personal and private property of the registrant.Ē



This rule is similar to that of many clubs, and was copied from the rules of the Mid-Atlantic Koi Club, and Charlotte. The fish are able to be purchased up to the end of benching, and there is no rule dealing with the disposition of the koi following the show.



I donít know that this is necessarily the best way, as it would be nice to say that the fish had to be in the personal possession of the owner for a minimum of a year, or some time, but that has not been the case for live shows, and is impossible to monitor or control.



But the rules were complied with and we are more than happy to have had the entrants and their fish. We do not believe that the time to discuss any problems with the last show is after the show is over, but if you are looking at trying to change the rules for next year, we look forward to discussing the issue within the committee


I request that this thread be closed and any other issues should be addressed privately to WWKC V K&GF Committee.

Thank You
Susan Reed

I would like to know what koi had been sold.

andres58
12-08-2009, 09:40 PM
make all the rules you want but at the end of the day this virtual Koi competition is based on the honor system............

pearlharborday
12-08-2009, 09:40 PM
I belive ya David.....I don't think it matters if you plan or had the fish sold....everyone knows you're compassion and great koi keeping abilities,in no dobt in my mind that you didn't own those fish for quite sometime...................you are truly a great koi keeper and it shows in your fish ...................congrats....more than well deserved....pearl

pearlharborday
12-08-2009, 09:43 PM
make all the rules you want but at the end of the day this virtual Koi competition is based on the honor system............so agreed ........and I hope this thread wasn't pointed at David....because if it was ,it was way out of line......his koi keeping abilities are stuff legends are made of

David Smothers
12-08-2009, 09:47 PM
so agreed ........and I hope this thread wasn't pointed at David....because if it was ,it was way out of line......his koi keeping abilities are stuff legends are made of

Thanks for the kind words. I normally am pretty "thick skinned" but this bothers me if I was the intended target of his accusation.

pearlharborday
12-08-2009, 09:55 PM
Thanks for the kind words. I normally am pretty "thick skinned" but this bothers me if I was the intended target of his accusation.well if it was shame....but maybe it wasn't......just this summer we had to sell off all our fish and close down our systems,,so we can move.we need more space for the dry good sales....and would be easier to start over than ,put the fish threw an unstable re-start....so we did what was best for the fish......found them good homes...........as for the show ,it doesn't matter what happens ,after it is the journey getting them there, that counts....some may disagree....but who cares,,you know what you did ....

Susan Reed
12-08-2009, 09:55 PM
This thread was the 1st time that the committee had been notified of this issue. I had sent Brutuscz 2 pm's asking for more details which have gone unanswered so I stand by my last statement!

Our Judges did an excellent job on judging this show this year! :bow:

Again, Congratulations to David on winning CG 2 years in a row! :bow:

Luck
12-08-2009, 10:00 PM
Problem solved...If people would like to discuss these rules before the next show the committee will discuss it then.