Wow,, I now believe you like the sound of your echo
Wow,, I now believe you like the sound of your echo
" If a cluttered desk is sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then is an empty desk a sign?"
Albert Einstein
Paultergeist, i acknowledge what you said, when it gets closer to time i will liaise to see how we can test to get answers.
So.
Comprehensive test results for.
A. Pond Test Results Required.
1. Ammonia
2. Nitrite
3. Nitrate
4. KH
5. DH
6. Temperature
B. Test of results of top up water, from flushing settlement chambers.
1. Ammonia
2. Nitrite
3. Nitrate.
4. Temperature
C. Analysis of Anoxic Chamber/Baskets.
- A way to test / prove, that water does not flow through the biocenisus baskets. ( there is a misconception that it is a type of gravel bed filter. nowhere close. )
Any further ideas.
From Paultergesit.
1. Tracking the water parameters over time -- as you have already described -- will provide useful insights to how the filter is establishing and maturing. I cannot think of any other water tests to add beyond the list you have already compiled.
2. What you can and should do is post detailed photos of the filtration system. By my reading of your last post, you have in the past installed this filtration strategy in (2) of your own ponds and a third pond owned by someone you assisted. That is three ponds thus far -- it is unfortunate that there do not seem to be documentation photos of these previous installs. If you are now going to use this system on a fourth pond, your documentation should include photos.
3. Bear in mind that any sort of substrate -- including the mechnical filter -- is going to also provide bacterial substrate which accounts for bio-filtration surface area.
4. The controversial question surrounding this "Anoxic Filtration" concept has never been one of whether bio-filtration will occur in a subject pond, but rather whether this filtration strategy is significantly better or operates in a substantially different manner than traditional bio-filtration. Consider this: in addition to the surface area provided by the mechanical filtration, those baskets filled with kitty litter are providing lots of substrate for bacterial colonization. Think of a huge "aquarium-style" under-gravel filter -- only laid on its' side -- as an analogy. There is no doubt that circulating pond water through such a gravel bed will provide substantial bio-filtration, and in that sense such a system will indeed "work" -- but is it working any differently than a large static substrate filter? I believe that is part of what Charles was referring to when he suggested using pots with only kitty litter (no Laterite). The limitation of such studies is that most folks are not willing to set up controlled vs. experimental systems -- this means more than one pond -- to perform valid experiments. That will be a challenge in your case, but any means you can come up with to document that your filter is working differently than a conventional filter would be interesting.
.......
Last edited by Dave; 07-15-2014 at 06:04 AM.
Dave.
If it doesn't kill you it can only make you a better person
"There is nothing wrong with making mistakes. Just don't respond with encores"
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I asked Jesus how much do you love me? Jesus replied this much and he stretched his arms on the cross and died...
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Randburg
South Africa
Sounds reasonable to me.
To much
Last edited by T9D; 11-12-2015 at 12:21 PM.
Unsightly though it may be Temporarily Sweetie ... tis short lived prior to Plant Invigoration in my recent experimental experience (minus the pond treatments) if we don`t go there ... which need to be deployed frequently seasonally in SOTA Filtration applications
Phood -Phor -Thought
The 4 new almost 3 inch fry fed next to nothing plus 5 adults in just 1,000 liters of water impresses me no end re water quality parameters ....
Not a DOC outside of TDS evaluation has been detectable thus PHAR ..
Well, I seem to be in the minority here, but I actually thought that Charles' most recent post was pretty much on target with a productive discussion and lending some historical perspective to things. Honestly, I thought it was a "good" post. Maybe I am missing something....? I believe Charles and myself are both attempting to see ways that the more experimental filtration methods -- much more commonly seen in marine / reef aquariums -- might be extrapolated to Koi ponds. Basic nitrification is easy; things like this "Anoxic Filtration" concept, refugiums, Deep Sand Beds, Algal Turf Scrubbers, denitrification columns -- these sort of things are yet pretty experimental and the discussions thereof generally hold much more speculation than real science.
Anyway......
Dave, I will be happy to offer any assistance. Best of luck with your efforts.
You are probably right Paul, I was looking at the last several posts and not just the last one. Anyway anything constructive along this vein will be good food for thought and for ideas of things to experiment with. Dave is setting up an anoxic system and is going to share his results and I think that is awesome.
You are absolutely correct and you're not missing anything.
It is simply that folk are emotionally reacting thus stating derision rather than analyzing what is written by me so to create the objective discussion of why folk should try the AFS.
I am as well still awaiting in his own written words, as expressed in my post#1065, exactly which blueprint, will be utilized to construct the system since there are so many renditions, as shown on the AFS blog, that have been deemed as "constructing the system as specified". This would be a quite useful piece of information for folk to know.
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Fish are as healthy at 95 mm Hg Partial Pressure as they are in 125.8777 mm Hg Partial Pressure at Sea Level. Necessity of 100% DO saturation for optimum Koi health is rubbish, derived from breeders whom need big money to pay their prices to keep them in business. Fish's health don't act different due to their price tag!!!
Charles
I have read your many posts over the years on AFS where you are disrespectful to anyone who will not drink from your cup. You seem to have a Jon of Arc complex.
employ bait and switch just so you can be the expert know it all. When in fact you are a hollow shell.
Dr.N. has credibility you do not . You and others like you are the very reason the good Dr. has left these forms. Selfish Charles- now cry like a little girl. Go back to driving you farm tractor.. and yes sailors stick together.
" If a cluttered desk is sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then is an empty desk a sign?"
Albert Einstein
Last edited by crsublette; 07-16-2014 at 12:38 PM.
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Fish are as healthy at 95 mm Hg Partial Pressure as they are in 125.8777 mm Hg Partial Pressure at Sea Level. Necessity of 100% DO saturation for optimum Koi health is rubbish, derived from breeders whom need big money to pay their prices to keep them in business. Fish's health don't act different due to their price tag!!!
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Fish are as healthy at 95 mm Hg Partial Pressure as they are in 125.8777 mm Hg Partial Pressure at Sea Level. Necessity of 100% DO saturation for optimum Koi health is rubbish, derived from breeders whom need big money to pay their prices to keep them in business. Fish's health don't act different due to their price tag!!!
Hi mod, could you please verify if this individual's behavior is trolling and act accordingly please. It is definitely detering from the current and potential AFS hobbiests' contribution/enjoyment to this thread.
Thanks to everyone who have kept the thread pretty darn civilized...
But with that said, Charles, you've made your point. It's time to let the thread takes it's course.
Telling the OP what direction the thread should go, is not reasonable. If you'd like to start your own,
that's fine... but please refrain from posting on this one any further. Like I said, you made your point.
Thanks,
Last edited by crsublette; 07-16-2014 at 04:13 PM.
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Fish are as healthy at 95 mm Hg Partial Pressure as they are in 125.8777 mm Hg Partial Pressure at Sea Level. Necessity of 100% DO saturation for optimum Koi health is rubbish, derived from breeders whom need big money to pay their prices to keep them in business. Fish's health don't act different due to their price tag!!!
Dave ... Do post TDS/ORP values along with the others you mentioned should you choose to (up to you entirely though sweetie)
My `Planted` VERSION has bowled me over re TDS thus phar ....
DOCS are being assimilated clearly whilst GH is consumed in the process ...
Interestingly ... KH values appear unaffected despite copious rainfall .... indicating the system is less `BIO` dependent even at higher Temps than I expected it to be
Fascinating whilst intriguing simultaneously ....
Dave,
Thanks for your work on this system. Though actually I don't really think it needs to be done. There are so many people who have had successful results with the system that it really speaks for itself. That being said, I do look forward to your findings.
I have never seen a filtration concept mocked, ridiculed and trolled like this. No other system has been hit with such a barrage of requests for explanations and scientific documentation of its efficacy. I can only imagine what would happen if folks posted pics of mad scientists on the Ethan's phoam phractiantor thread or Birdman's SG thread. My hats off to you for staying the course and holding your tongue.
Here is my AFS question. It is standard thinking that the water must be "clean" before it gets to the baskets. But if the water is not running THROUGH but rather around the basket, does that matter so much? I have 4 baskets in a 250 gallon settling chamber. The water is BD water that gravity flows in, flows through a homemade sieve, flows around/near the baskets and then a submersible pump sends it to a SG filter. So the debris in the water is pretty minimal, but not quite what I would call "clean". I actually plan to put a few airstones in my settling chamber, next to the baskets, which are slightly elevated, to move water around and draw it past the baskets better. I assume that aeration will actually be good for the normal biological activity that will happen in the kitty litter, and not impact the activity happening deeper into the basket.
And AFS question 2:
It seems standard thought that for bead filters to function at their best that Kh needs to be around 200 or higher. Any thoughts on whether Kh levels might impact either the standard biological processes in the litter? Or within the anoxic zone?
So what are you guys that are using AF doing for fines filtering? Do you still use S/G for mech filtering?