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Thread: Steps in Calculating Amount of K1 in MB

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    Steps in Calculating Amount of K1 in MB

    Moving bed fitlers are a popular option in filter system designs. As a result, many ask how much bio media or K1 specifically do I need. In many cases the ponder already has a tank and want’s to know how much media is needed to fill the tank. Generally the response back is “you can never have enough” or fill a MB tank in the 50 to 60 percent range with media. Unfortunely, this is working at the answer from the wrong side. It doesn matter what size tank you have on hand, how big your pond is or the size of your other filter components. Just because you have a big SC, doesn’t mean you need a big MB.

    A more logically approach in designing bio needs is to look at the amount of fish food that needs to be processed base on the number and size of the koi in your herd and how heavy you will be feeding them. Unfortunely there’s limited documentiou out there on how to go about this. EA, the distributor of K1, has provided online, some broad guidance on how much K1 is needed, based on their Nexus filters.

    http://www.nexuseazy.com/pdf/Kaldnes.pdf

    The data is in metric and converting it to U.S. standards scares many of us…it’s math. So here’s EA’s quidelines, converted.


    Name:  K1.jpg
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    So now a lesson in what you are seeing. You have 14 koi that are 24” in length. There are a number of sites that contain koi length/weight charts and I found that 6lbs is average for a 24” koi or a total 84lbs of koi in the pond currently. You’re providing a moderate level of feeding…1.5 percent of the total koi weight. You find the 83lbs in the 1.5% body weight column and follow the row to the left to see that this would be almost 18 oz of feed per day. So the suggested amount of K1 would be 2.4ft2. While this is just a ball park figure, it’s better than a flat out guess. Next question is going to be, how big a tank do I need. Rounding the K1 to 3ft2, it would take up about 22g in a tank (7.5g per ft2 of K1). With a 55g barrel, this would be less than a 50% media fill rate but would give you room to add another cubic foot of K1 later to get to a 60% fill ratio. In sizding bio needs, you really need to look at your herd now and in the future. Is the herd stable in numbers and size or will it be a growing herd that will require additional bio capabilites. That brings in the ideal of sizing a tank for later use but filling with the amount of K1 for today’s situation and adding more K1 later. I feel that these quidelines would also work for Bioflow9 which is similar to K1 in size, shape and the amount of surface area it provides.

    Edit: Koiphen member shortypen has some bio filtration design concepts on his website. It includes a section on calculating K1 amount. It's a very streamlined calculation process based on fish load and feed.

    http://www.shortypen.com/projects/pond/design/index.htm

    His K1 calculation is in the sub-section "Designing Koi Pond Bio Filter"
    Last edited by mpageler; 10-29-2012 at 09:18 AM.
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    Calculating K1 Bio Media


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    Nice reference info Mike. You hit the heart of the issue about "how much" as well. This will allow folks to see that, in many cases, just filling the K1 in a barrel as full as the barrel will allow to "boil" isn't the right answer.

    One note, however, shouldn't the amount of K1 you show in the chart on the left be in cu ft rather than sq ft?

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
    i
    One note, however, shouldn't the amount of K1 you show in the chart on the left be in cu ft rather than sq ft?

    Mike
    Yep...I have to change that.
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    Excellent conversion info

    But...... what I really want to know is air requirements to boil these amounts of K1
    Regards, Ken

    The most powerful point of suction in the pond occurs at our checking account. It's all Marges fault!

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    Nice post Mike, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hacnp View Post
    But...... what I really want to know is air requirements to boil these amounts of K1
    This could depend on the amount of media and the size of the filter container.

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    Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
    One note, however, shouldn't the amount of K1 you show in the chart on the left be in cu ft rather than sq ft?

    Mike

    Thats a rhetorical question n'est pas?

    Thanks Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMorris271 View Post
    Thats a rhetorical question n'est pas?

    Thanks Mike.
    Oui!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpageler View Post
    Moving bed fitlers are a popular option in filter system designs. As a result, many ask how much bio media or K1 specifically do I need. In many cases the ponder already has a tank and want’s to know how much media is needed to fill the tank. Generally the response back is “you can never have enough” or fill a MB tank in the 50 to 60 percent range with media. Unfortunely, this is working at the answer from the wrong side. It doesn matter what size tank you have on hand, how big your pond is or the size of your other filter components. Just because you have a big SC, doesn’t mean you need a big MB.

    A more logically approach in designing bio needs is to look at the amount of fish food that needs to be processed base on the number and size of the koi in your herd and how heavy you will be feeding them. Unfortunely there’s limited documentiou out there on how to go about this. EA, the distributor of K1, has provided online, some broad guidance on how much K1 is needed, based on their Nexus filters.

    http://www.nexuseazy.com/pdf/Kaldnes.pdf

    The data is in metric and converting it to U.S. standards scares many of us…it’s math. So here’s EA’s quidelines, converted.


    Attachment 292475

    So now a lesson in what you are seeing. You have 14 koi that are 24” in length. There are a number of sites that contain koi length/weight charts and I found that 6lbs is average for a 24” koi or a total 84lbs of koi in the pond currently. You’re providing a moderate level of feeding…1.5 percent of the total koi weight. You find the 83lbs in the 1.5% body weight column and follow the row to the left to see that this would be almost 18 oz of feed per day. So the suggested amount of K1 would be 2.4ft2. While this is just a ball park figure, it’s better than a flat out guess. Next question is going to be, how big a tank do I need. Rounding the K1 to 3ft2, it would take up about 22g in a tank (7.5g per ft2 of K1). With a 55g barrel, this would be less than a 50% media fill rate but would give you room to add another cubic foot of K1 later to get to a 60% fill ratio. In sizding bio needs, you really need to look at your herd now and in the future. Is the herd stable in numbers and size or will it be a growing herd that will require additional bio capabilites. That brings in the ideal of sizing a tank for later use but filling with the amount of K1 for today’s situation and adding more K1 later. I feel that these quidelines would also work for Bioflow9 which is similar to K1 in size, shape and the amount of surface area it provides.
    This is simply a wonderful thread.

    Thank you!
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    I guess I'm confused as to why more aren't using various ways of boiling the water with water. I diverted flow from my uvs to my MB in addition to air and got much better boil. And so a larger amount of bio media can be used. OK,a bit off topic. Sorry.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillJ View Post
    I guess I'm confused as to why more aren't using various ways of boiling the water with water. I diverted flow from my uvs to my MB in addition to air and got much better boil. And so a larger amount of bio media can be used. OK,a bit off topic. Sorry.

    Bill
    good point, Bill!
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    1.5% to me seems low.
    more so when you have folks, feeding veggies, shrimp, etc... to there koi. and its no longer 1.5% but 15% to 20 % of body weight per day.

    protein percentage of food also plays a role in it.

    multi feedings spread out through the day, vs say one time feeding and a huge helping.

    ================
    on other hand. generally see 55 gallon drum bio filter per 3000 gallon pond.

    which roughs out if going by max suggest stocking levels of 250 gallons per koi to be 12 koi per 3000 gallons of pond.
    Pond and Construction Forum 101 good place for any first timers to the forum. for finding resources and general info.

    Ryan

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    Quote Originally Posted by hacnp View Post
    But...... what I really want to know is air requirements to boil these amounts of K1
    EA has a real broad air recomendation chart on the following page but I agree with Koiman, tank size and shape will have a lot to do with how fully the media will roll. I feel the most effective tank would be a taller, round one.

    http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/K1___K3.html
    Last edited by mpageler; 02-10-2009 at 08:53 AM.
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    Many thanks

    for the info!
    Regards, Ken

    The most powerful point of suction in the pond occurs at our checking account. It's all Marges fault!

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    So for a moving bed filter using K1, you shouldn't go over 40% total media for the overal size of the actual chamber that the K1 is in? Is that correct?
    Last edited by TheBlueFalcon; 03-24-2010 at 08:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlueFalcon View Post
    So for a moving bed filter using K1, you shouldn't go over 40% total media for the overal size of the actual chamber that the K1 is in? Is that correct?
    Please go back and re-read MPageler's opening post. It isn't the size of the container that matters - it's the fish load and how much food you feed.

    There's an old saying,..."you don't feed your fish, you feed your filter"!
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    Moving/Bed filters are all a little different. So many variables, such as water flow and the amount of air. Start with 40% then watch your media. If you cave the correct amount it should get nice and tan or light brown. If it gets to dark then you want to add more media. Go slow, it will start piling up around the outside of the container when you get to much. A 55 gallon barrel with a 9" high capacity air diffuser, 40 to 50 L air pump flowing at 2000 gph should be able to handle 60% media. For this 55 gallon barrel I start out at 4 cubic feet then go from there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
    Please go back and re-read MPageler's opening post. It isn't the size of the container that matters - it's the fish load and how much food you feed.

    There's an old saying,..."you don't feed your fish, you feed your filter"!
    Yes, I did read mpageler's post. The reason I asked that question is because I want to make sure I am using the right size container for the amount of K1 that I intend to use, based on the fish load and feeding amounts.

    In mpagler post he suggests a 60% fill ratio. Following the link to ShortyPen.com suggests a 40% fill ratio. I've also seen as little as 30% being recommended.

    I know there is always going to be variables from one setup to the next, but the difference between a 30% and 60% fill ratio has quite an impact on the size of the container required for a particular amount of K1.

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    From past threads, 50 to 60 percent fill is often suggested as the max. More than that and good boiling action may not occur. But that's the concept, calculate how much media you need and then size the tank based on a fill ratio. Starting with a lower fill rate will give you an option to add more media down the road as long as you have the tank size/capcity.
    MN Mike

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    Dry Stacked Block Walls - Drop-in Liner
    4" BD - Cetus Seive - DIY Skimmer
    125g MB w/8ft2 Biollow9
    Converted Trition II Sand Filter

    My Pond Construction
    My QT Tank
    My Indoor Overwintering Tank
    Calculating K1 Bio Media


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    Quote Originally Posted by mpageler View Post
    From past threads, 50 to 60 percent fill is often suggested as the max. More than that and good boiling action may not occur. But that's the concept, calculate how much media you need and then size the tank based on a fill ratio. Starting with a lower fill rate will give you an option to add more media down the road as long as you have the tank size/capcity.
    Thanks. I think what I have planned is about right then.

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