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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
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    Thread: New forum - "Please Judge this Koi" For Serious Critique

    1. #21
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by cppond View Post
      My suggestion is that people include the name of the type of the koi in the thread title. For example, "Please judge my gin rin kohaku." It would also be best to limit each thread to one koi, too, not multiple koi. I think you will get better responses doing so.

      So far I am really enjoying the forum.
      Carl

      These are very good ideas/suggestions. As I mentioned before, it would be helpful to add AS MUCH detailed info about the fish as possible for better evaluation.

      I too am enjoying the forum more than most.

      Mike

    2. #22
      nytwinskoi is offline Senior Member
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      Smile Please identify this Ginrin Kohaku's sex and please critique

      :yes: Please help me to identify this Ginrin Kohaku sex- male or female and please critique. thanks

      10.6 in
      born in 2009
      ginrin kohaku
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    3. #23
      ponyboy2442 is offline Senior Member
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      I say male looks very skinny
      Dont like the beni between either secondary or disappearing the head and next step

    4. #24
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      Thanks for your critique.

    5. #25
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      Did u get that from Kodoma

    6. #26
      markdiamond6 is offline Junior Member
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      Being a newbie in here...I really find this forum very interesting and I really enjoyed reading everyone's posts..I agree with you Carl, for the title of the thread so that it would be more fun knowing the name of the koi..
      Last edited by Marilyn; 10-06-2011 at 04:51 PM.

    7. #27
      crsublette is offline Senior Member
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      Keep in mind the title of this particular topic is "for serious critique". So, it is up to the discretion of members to make these particular threads to be an educational moment.


      So, join the WWKC and check out the material that is only available to the WWKC members. WWKC Teach and Learn section, only readable to those who want to join the club, has a tremendous amount of info that is shared to newbies about teaching the nuances of koi including:

      1) koi colors, patterns, terminology
      2) skin quality
      3) how to know the gender
      4) general care tips provided by well known japanese breeders
      5) and more...

      You can also post new threads there as well to ask the veterans your questions.

      I hope I am not stepping on WWKC management's toes here. I am just sensing a bit of miscommunication and trying to provide a bit of clarity.

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by crsublette View Post
      Keep in mind the title of this particular topic is "for serious critique". So, it is up to the discretion of members to make these particular threads to be an educational moment.


      So, join the WWKC and check out the material that is only available to the WWKC members. WWKC Teach and Learn section, only readable to those who want to join the club, has a tremendous amount of info that is shared to newbies about teaching the nuances of koi including:

      1) koi colors, patterns, terminology
      2) skin quality
      3) how to know the gender
      4) general care tips provided by well known japanese breeders
      5) and more...

      You can also post new threads there as well to ask the veterans your questions.

      I hope I am not stepping on WWKC management's toes here. I am just sensing a bit of miscommunication and trying to provide a bit of clarity.
      Okay I see what you are saying, but knowledge like this should be free I shouldn't have to join to learn. Especially if I can't join. Heck I can hardly afford koi, let alone pay annual dues and such to clubs. Again this doesn't mean I don't want to just not part of my budget.

      Reading through the beginning of this tread it was meant to be a forum for all fish to be critiqued in detail, quality or culls... This is supposed to be a fun teaching forum.

    9. #29
      crsublette is offline Senior Member
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      If that is not a good enough reason for it not to be free... then all type of books and all literature should be given out to be free on the internet or should only be purchased for $1.

      This is a fun teaching forum... So, now that members don't properly answer ya then this dictates otherwise? Come on man... I'm not gonna argue the point any further, either ya get it or ya don't.

    10. #30
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Redman8102 View Post
      Okay I see what you are saying, but knowledge like this should be free I shouldn't have to join to learn. Especially if I can't join. Heck I can hardly afford koi, let alone pay annual dues and such to clubs. Again this doesn't mean I don't want to just not part of my budget.

      Reading through the beginning of this tread it was meant to be a forum for all fish to be critiqued in detail, quality or culls... This is supposed to be a fun teaching forum.
      OMG! You really believe what you just wrote? We should GIVE YOU FREE INFORMATION that took many countless years to amass? Do you believe there's a magic "koi fairy" who just bestows this information, in total detail and it comes spewing out of the mouths of many?

      I truly apologize for my seemingly arrogant post of your Petsmart or whatever it is fish. I was, after re-reading it, a bit condescending and I didn't want it to come off that way. It's just, that for as long as we've had that forum, most folks read the disclaimer before they post their fish there as it is for SERIOUS CRITIQUE with regards to comparing a fish to koi show standards. Do you really believe, in your heart, that a $3 Petsmart/Walmart fish could compete with even a $500 fish in a show? So, what do you really want to know, other than it is a Walmart quality fish? As such, it was domestically bred by some breeder who cares nothing about providing a "quality" koi, just mass breeding to sell the "should have been culls" for 5 cents a piece, so the unsuspecting/uneducated masses can buy one and say they have KOI! It does not have a pattern worthy of competition as the balance between the three colors is not even "good". The red or beni as it's called, is weak and thin. The black or sumi as it's known, is, as Jimfish already stated, too far developed at this young age. The skin is very important with regards to the development of the color pigmentation that is rooted, in quality fish, deeply within the dermis. This is why, again in quality fish, it takes longer for the sumi to develop. The first and truly most important thing to begin to understand is body conformation. On a fish this size, to be that fat, is not good. It represents a type of fish that will not grow large but instead, be short and dumpy looking. To delve deeper into this, for a fish this size, is just not realistic, I'm sorry.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    11. #31
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      If you want free, ask and you will get opinions and some knowledge. You can search the internet and get a mass of opinions with lack of backing data or follow up results. Realistically though even Koi for Dummies costs $20. When you start getting into expert info, prices sky rocket. Look up the cost on expert's books like Kodama's books as well as Peter Waddington. Used copies are not cheap either. Small bits of great information at a high cost is out there, the small price for what is in the member section is minimal in comparison.



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      Just because its not a Great Koi doesn't mean its not a Great Koi...Me circa 2013

    12. #32
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      And when ready to go beyond "Koi for Dummies"... Nishikigoi Mondo is a fabulous, extremely intricate, awesome book as well. Not cheap at all and definitely worth it.

    13. #33
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      Its my koi, it was a *surprise* from my boyfriend so he had an excuse to use the tank thats been sitting out in the garage for months. I never came on here saying I have an awesome and amazing koi, I knew he was bad right off the rip and wanted to know what made him bad, what qualities was he lacking? Thats all I was after, I dont have any show stoppers and highly doubt I ever will honestly but it was just a simple question so I knew why, Im sorry if I came off that I had an outstanding and found the diamond in the rough.
      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      OMG! You really believe what you just wrote? We should GIVE YOU FREE INFORMATION that took many countless years to amass? Do you believe there's a magic "koi fairy" who just bestows this information, in total detail and it comes spewing out of the mouths of many?

      I truly apologize for my seemingly arrogant post of your Petsmart or whatever it is fish. I was, after re-reading it, a bit condescending and I didn't want it to come off that way. It's just, that for as long as we've had that forum, most folks read the disclaimer before they post their fish there as it is for SERIOUS CRITIQUE with regards to comparing a fish to koi show standards. Do you really believe, in your heart, that a $3 Petsmart/Walmart fish could compete with even a $500 fish in a show? So, what do you really want to know, other than it is a Walmart quality fish? As such, it was domestically bred by some breeder who cares nothing about providing a "quality" koi, just mass breeding to sell the "should have been culls" for 5 cents a piece, so the unsuspecting/uneducated masses can buy one and say they have KOI! It does not have a pattern worthy of competition as the balance between the three colors is not even "good". The red or beni as it's called, is weak and thin. The black or sumi as it's known, is, as Jimfish already stated, too far developed at this young age. The skin is very important with regards to the development of the color pigmentation that is rooted, in quality fish, deeply within the dermis. This is why, again in quality fish, it takes longer for the sumi to develop. The first and truly most important thing to begin to understand is body conformation. On a fish this size, to be that fat, is not good. It represents a type of fish that will not grow large but instead, be short and dumpy looking. To delve deeper into this, for a fish this size, is just not realistic, I'm sorry.

    14. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      OMG! You really believe what you just wrote? We should GIVE YOU FREE INFORMATION that took many countless years to amass? Do you believe there's a magic "koi fairy" who just bestows this information, in total detail and it comes spewing out of the mouths of many?

      I truly apologize for my seemingly arrogant post of your Petsmart or whatever it is fish. I was, after re-reading it, a bit condescending and I didn't want it to come off that way. It's just, that for as long as we've had that forum, most folks read the disclaimer before they post their fish there as it is for SERIOUS CRITIQUE with regards to comparing a fish to koi show standards. Do you really believe, in your heart, that a $3 Petsmart/Walmart fish could compete with even a $500 fish in a show? So, what do you really want to know, other than it is a Walmart quality fish? As such, it was domestically bred by some breeder who cares nothing about providing a "quality" koi, just mass breeding to sell the "should have been culls" for 5 cents a piece, so the unsuspecting/uneducated masses can buy one and say they have KOI! It does not have a pattern worthy of competition as the balance between the three colors is not even "good". The red or beni as it's called, is weak and thin. The black or sumi as it's known, is, as Jimfish already stated, too far developed at this young age. The skin is very important with regards to the development of the color pigmentation that is rooted, in quality fish, deeply within the dermis. This is why, again in quality fish, it takes longer for the sumi to develop. The first and truly most important thing to begin to understand is body conformation. On a fish this size, to be that fat, is not good. It represents a type of fish that will not grow large but instead, be short and dumpy looking. To delve deeper into this, for a fish this size, is just not realistic, I'm sorry.
      Perfect you explained gave details to your opinion and now everyone is happy and yes I do feel information of this nature should be free. Let me ask you this when you first started out did you just learn everything from experience or were you told by somebody how things were supposed to be?

      I believe we all know the answer, You were told and I'm sure you didn't pay anything for it. And please lets not act like you were above petsmart/Walmart quality koi. When you started maybe they didn't have petsmart and Walmart but I bet you rode down to the nearest little pet store and picked the prettiest little $3 koi and learned from it.

      That's the exact thing we are doing buying cheap fish askin questions and learning from them as they grow.

      And then everybody gets in an uproar because we ask why you think what you think. Give us the answer and let us learn. Times have changed, if I want to be told why something is the way it is I hop on the Internet ask a lot of questions and then take what I learned and apply it to the real world. It's exactly what you guys did asking experts at shows and breeders in Japan. Heck even reading books. The Internet has takin out the leg work and that is a great thing for any hobby.

      But to ask somebody that they should pay for basic knowledge in any hobby is asinine. It does nothing but drive people away from your group usually into groups that will answer their questions with open arms. Again this forum was established to help those who need their questions answered. And once those that need it are helped then they may pay to keep a forum like this alive for others in the future who will need help.

      As for the "serious critique" disclaimer of this tread I believe it applies more to the 'critiquer' and not the 'critiquee'. And of course nobody thinks a $3 fish should compete against a $300. This forum isn't a competition it's a place to have any quality koi critiqued and ultimately a learning tool for everybody, even those self proclaimed experienced hobbyists out there.

      Again you guys have taught me a lot and I thank you for it. I'm not ungrateful and I'm not trying to create and uproar, all I'm saying is everybody has the right to learn, don't be so arrogant and standoff-ish when people ask questions.
      Last edited by Redman8102; 02-09-2013 at 02:27 AM.

    15. #35
      Sweetwater is offline Senior Member
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      So...What business does this conversation have being in a sticky?

    16. #36
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      I agree... and it being 5 years old, why it's even here.
      I think everyone got their two cents in.
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