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  • Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345
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    Thread: Keirin Koi???

    1. #81
      KoiKopy is offline Junior Member
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      Reply to Chucks comment

      Yes, actually it was Baking Soda Chuck. Go check your Baking Soda container.

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    2. #82
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      Bad Experience/Flat Rock Koi/Carl Forss/Vicki Vaughn

      I started another thread with the above title

    3. #83
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      Quote Originally Posted by pondpassion View Post
      I started another thread with the above title
      Where's the above mentioned thread??
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      After you DESTROY all the Taliban and AL-QAEDA still breathing


    4. #84
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    5. #85
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      Unhappy I Just Hope This Nightmare Eventually Ends

      Got another call yesterday from one of Carl's (FlatRock/Keirin Koi) vendors. It has been years now but they keep persisting. They are threatening to sue me for non-payment as the filters were sent here to this address. I am not worried because I have invoices that prove I paid Carl almost twice of what they sold them to him for Still it is a hastle that just won't go away and very very frustrating.

    6. #86
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      Angry Yes, the Flat Rock Koi/Carl Forss/Vicki Burnley Vaughn nightmare continues for me too

      Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
      Got another call yesterday from one of Carl's (FlatRock/Keirin Koi) vendors. It has been years now but they keep persisting. They are threatening to sue me for non-payment as the filters were sent here to this address. I am not worried because I have invoices that prove I paid Carl almost twice of what they sold them to him for Still it is a hastle that just won't go away and very very frustrating.
      Got a call a few weeks ago from one of their vendors, they are trying to collect from Flat Rock Koi. Flat Rock Koi claims they never got paid for the job. I assured them he did, in advance! Hope they don't start harrasing the innocent homeowner!

    7. #87
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      Quote Originally Posted by pondpassion View Post
      Got a call a few weeks ago from one of their vendors, they are trying to collect from Flat Rock Koi. Flat Rock Koi claims they never got paid for the job. I assured them he did, in advance! Hope they don't start harrasing the innocent homeowner!
      Been there done that. Times are indeed tuff. The people that are mostly calling me are not the vendors themselves, but collection agencies that get a large % of any collections. They really are extremely rude and don't care about the facts, only their commissions. So Sad.

    8. #88
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      Zebras cannot change their stripes. why does anyone expect Carl to change ? He was bankrupt w/Keirin Koi, stiffed who knows how many people and ran off to Vicky's in Georgia to start the Flat Rock scam. I have known Vicky for years and still cannot figure out what she sees in him, I have always had a hard time accepting that she too is a scam. Bird of the same feathers....she has been warned. Carl own nothing, everything is in her name. He has stolen from breeders in Japan, never paid for fish received etc...the list is so long that it isn't even funny. How can you expect to stay in business if you screw every darn customer ? I will never ever purchase fish from him again, did & learned that lesson. Poorly packaged boxes, stressed fish & many DOA's for which he said he would reimburse me, have yet to see that cash.
      The Koi hobby is small and it is imperative that we all watch each others dorsal fin, it is not slander to tell the truth and Carl has damaged our industry to the point that many honest & Koi caring hobbyists have dropped out. He is not alone, I could compile a cool list of all the shysters I have encountered in my 30 + years of owning Koi and 25 of having my business in Los Angeles. The rules are simple: treat people with respect, pay your bills and know that sooner than later it will come back if you screwed someone. He should be totally black listed from the industry, he even dared to rip off the one man ( Doctor Gratsik) who gave Vicky her brake at UGA, kind of like turning your family into the Gestapo. He has no scruples what so ever. How do I really feel about him ? I always wondered how he lost his finger tip....can you say Yakusa ? I'm going on a limb here...a cool one. Anyway, warn all and stay away and buyer be ware. Vicky had a great future ahead of her and threw it all out the window, stupid choice.

    9. #89
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      Quote Originally Posted by thefishlady View Post
      Zebras cannot change their stripes. why does anyone expect Carl to change ? He was bankrupt w/Keirin Koi, stiffed who knows how many people and ran off to Vicky's in Georgia to start the Flat Rock scam. I have known Vicky for years and still cannot figure out what she sees in him, I have always had a hard time accepting that she too is a scam. Bird of the same feathers....she has been warned. Carl own nothing, everything is in her name. He has stolen from breeders in Japan, never paid for fish received etc...the list is so long that it isn't even funny. How can you expect to stay in business if you screw every darn customer ? I will never ever purchase fish from him again, did & learned that lesson. Poorly packaged boxes, stressed fish & many DOA's for which he said he would reimburse me, have yet to see that cash.
      The Koi hobby is small and it is imperative that we all watch each others dorsal fin, it is not slander to tell the truth and Carl has damaged our industry to the point that many honest & Koi caring hobbyists have dropped out. He is not alone, I could compile a cool list of all the shysters I have encountered in my 30 + years of owning Koi and 25 of having my business in Los Angeles. The rules are simple: treat people with respect, pay your bills and know that sooner than later it will come back if you screwed someone. He should be totally black listed from the industry, he even dared to rip off the one man ( Doctor Gratsik) who gave Vicky her brake at UGA, kind of like turning your family into the Gestapo. He has no scruples what so ever. How do I really feel about him ? I always wondered how he lost his finger tip....can you say Yakusa ? I'm going on a limb here...a cool one. Anyway, warn all and stay away and buyer be ware. Vicky had a great future ahead of her and threw it all out the window, stupid choice.
      Been there, done that & the club just keeps getting bigger

    10. #90
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    11. #91
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      Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
      I had Carl build me a pond. It was supposed to take a month but took a year. I prepaid Carl for all of the filter equipment and later found that Carl never paid the manufacturers. Also most of the local contractors were not paid as well, some of them who I had done business with for a long time. So I paid Carl for their work plus his markup and then I paid some of them again because he did not.

      They made many serious mistakes constructing the pond. I eventually had to get another crew in to jackhammer thru the concrete in 2 separate locations to fix the brain farts. The pond had dozens if not hundreds of leaks in the mortar which took Mary, myself and several of my workers many months to fix.

      I found out after they arrived that I needed to pay Carl $30 a day for each employees food, sometimes as may as a dozen or more, and also provide motel rooms for them at $100 a nite per room. After a year that begins to add up.

      I paid Carl every Friday. I always asked Carl to give me a detailed professional breakdown of the bill but he never had time and said he would work on it later. Later never came. Instead I got a bill scribbled on an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper. Examples in front of me now from one week.

      One Week Only and I quote:

      Labor - $67,721.25
      Food - $2460.00
      Lodging - $4327.92
      Materials - $49,699.60
      Poly Spray - $59,400

      One Week Total - $183,608.77 (Remember it took a freakin' year)

      I couldn't believe that poly bill so I called the sprayer and asked. He gave me an explanation. A year later, the sprayer emailed me and wanted to clear the air. He told me that Carl told him to lie about the sq ft. Also he said he charged Carl $8 per sq ft and thought Carl was gonna charge me $8 plus 10% (our agreed markup) but later found out the Carl had actually charged me $14 plus 10% for a total of $15.60 per sq foot and lied about the sq ft. Then I find out also that Carl did not pay the sprayer

      The salt in the wound was the first day the crew showed up. One of the workers brought a big aggressive dog that they let run around loose. Mary and I thought it was only going to be a month so we kept Sally inside while they were here. One time we let her outside to go to the rest room. She came back with a huge chunk of flesh taken out of her. One of Carls workers told me that the dog attacked Sally for no reason. That is when I told Carl if I ever see that dog on my property again I will shoot it and I might shoot you too.

      When I decided to possibly file a judgement against Carl, I did a D & B and some financial background checks. I found out that he has judgements against him in excess of $5,000,000.00. That does not include all the local contractors and those that did not file.

      He left Pa because the bank that he stuck for $2,800,000.00 is selling the property that they have a lein on. It is pennies on the scope of things.

      There is a whole lot more but I think you get the idea.

      Cliff Notes Version - I have done business with Carl Forss and Keiren Koi and it was not a pretty experience and the next time will be when

      If anyone wants a copy of the financial reports, pm me.
      Hey folks even tho this was 8 years ago, please be very careful Right Now! I am just saying, "Please Beware"!!!! Please do not post on this thread unless you have personal experience. Lot's of chatter out there again

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