When you go to order stuff where you have for the past 6 years and no one is home So to speak. No phone no way of contacting no return e-mails thats high and dry.Facts are Facts.
When you go to order stuff where you have for the past 6 years and no one is home So to speak. No phone no way of contacting no return e-mails thats high and dry.Facts are Facts.
They had some beautiful Koi and I now have some of them in my pond. They had some of the best breeder's fish, I know, I met some of them. I'm sure they will have a great setup down here. I am looking forward to it.
Tategoi, have you priced good Koi lately? I have seen some down here twice as expensive and not have as pretty.
It is all in the eye of the beholder. Businesses move, stuff happens. When the new place opens, I'm sure you'll have a link. You'll get over it.
Chuck
DM, take it over to the vendor section
https://www.koiphen.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=160
Guess we didn't get the email Cindy.
CPPOND, perhaps just move this over there
Chuck
I moved the thread to the vendors feedback forum.
-- Carl --
I have purchased four koi from Carl and was very pleased with the service,quality and the price.
I have purchased over 20 Koi from Carl over the years and all are excellent except for the two that did not like the move south.
They also built three Koi ponds for us. Two were spray liners, one here and one in Pa. The Pa pond was sprayed by a guy from Tenn. and the one here was done by a team from Tucson, Az.
The third pond was a liner pond that we should have recognized would not hold up as the ground was all shale and caused saging problems in some of the walls. We should have blocked the walls the first time but cost was a problem at the time. Perhaps keirin should have advised us about the shale but, life goes on. We did get good pricing for the rebuild with block and the spray liner to make the job right.
I recommend Keirin for expert pond building and excellent Koi!
Chuck
I had Carl build me a pond. It was supposed to take a month but took a year. I prepaid Carl for all of the filter equipment and later found that Carl never paid the manufacturers. Also most of the local contractors were not paid as well, some of them who I had done business with for a long time. So I paid Carl for their work plus his markup and then I paid some of them again because he did not.
They made many serious mistakes constructing the pond. I eventually had to get another crew in to jackhammer thru the concrete in 2 separate locations to fix the brain farts. The pond had dozens if not hundreds of leaks in the mortar which took Mary, myself and several of my workers many months to fix.
I found out after they arrived that I needed to pay Carl $30 a day for each employees food, sometimes as may as a dozen or more, and also provide motel rooms for them at $100 a nite per room. After a year that begins to add up.
I paid Carl every Friday. I always asked Carl to give me a detailed professional breakdown of the bill but he never had time and said he would work on it later. Later never came. Instead I got a bill scribbled on an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper. Examples in front of me now from one week.
One Week Only and I quote:
Labor - $67,721.25
Food - $2460.00
Lodging - $4327.92
Materials - $49,699.60
Poly Spray - $59,400
One Week Total - $183,608.77 (Remember it took a freakin' year)
I couldn't believe that poly bill so I called the sprayer and asked. He gave me an explanation. A year later, the sprayer emailed me and wanted to clear the air. He told me that Carl told him to lie about the sq ft. Also he said he charged Carl $8 per sq ft and thought Carl was gonna charge me $8 plus 10% (our agreed markup) but later found out the Carl had actually charged me $14 plus 10% for a total of $15.60 per sq foot and lied about the sq ft. Then I find out also that Carl did not pay the sprayer
The salt in the wound was the first day the crew showed up. One of the workers brought a big aggressive dog that they let run around loose. Mary and I thought it was only going to be a month so we kept Sally inside while they were here. One time we let her outside to go to the rest room. She came back with a huge chunk of flesh taken out of her. One of Carls workers told me that the dog attacked Sally for no reason. That is when I told Carl if I ever see that dog on my property again I will shoot it and I might shoot you too.
When I decided to possibly file a judgement against Carl, I did a D & B and some financial background checks. I found out that he has judgements against him in excess of $5,000,000.00. That does not include all the local contractors and those that did not file.
He left Pa because the bank that he stuck for $2,800,000.00 is selling the property that they have a lein on. It is pennies on the scope of things.
There is a whole lot more but I think you get the idea.
Cliff Notes Version - I have done business with Carl Forss and Keiren Koi and it was not a pretty experience and the next time will be when
If anyone wants a copy of the financial reports, pm me.
Last edited by stephen; 04-10-2008 at 03:01 PM.
Stephen, all I can say is WOW what a horrible experience for you and Mary.
I do not know Keiren Koi and since I am in California, don't ever expect to do any business with him anyway.
This is what the Vendor Feedback Forum is all about. If in fact he is moving to GA. as some have said, it was good that this was posted so they will be aware of his way of doing business.
A lot of people can talk the talk but they cannot walk the walk!
Katie, My Heart dog and Paige, My friend.
Barbara
"I may be old but I refuse to grow up":dance:
I am a YADA, YADA, YADA.YADA. Yeah, baby! That's what I'm talking about.
Hey, I am not defending Carl but this is one persons experience in a changing environment.
As for the report Stephen mentioned, I asked for it, it seems the most current thing on it was from 1997 if I read it correctly. If that is true, 11 year old stuff is not very current. If I did not read it correctly, my apology.
Chuck
From an empirical standpoint, there are two sides to every argument. It would be interesting to hear the defense on this one.
Those dollar figures are in a completely different ballpark for me
I hope you get some closure, but at the end of the day, you still have the company of an incredible herd Especially Mojo
Stephen, not to make this a me vs you situation, I said the latest information on the report was from 1997 and it was. The report you had was dated 7 months ago. By the way, that bank changed names and is not two different banks. Sorry, you do not get my apology.
I would like to see information you have later than 1997 as you mentioned in your PM.
It's funny, all the vendors in this forum are great according to mant that have responded and only this one seems to be a target. Even in this thread, there are many good comments about Keirin.
By the way, no one could build Stephen's "Sea World" in just one month. That whole scene is outstanding.
CPPOND, as I mentioned in the comments about this forum previously, it could turn into a personal vendetta. These are my last comments about Keirin, everyone has their own opinion and I have expressed mine.
Chuck
Chuck
I appreciate your concerns, but Stephen had total control of this board for years. If he wanted to just slam someone he didn't need this isolated forum to do it. His opinon is one among many. People can evaluate all of these opinions for themselves and we think they are entitled to that opportunity. If we are wrong, we will make changes.
As to Keiren being the only one with a negative comment, I don't think there is any significance to that. The forum is only a day or two old.
-- Carl --
No problem Chuck. We are all welcome to our own opinions, that is what this new forum was created for.
I have been in business for a very long time. Quite successfully I might add. When I make a decision whether or not to go after financial wrongdoings, I want to make sure that I don't throw away good money chasing bad money. I have very good lawyers but they are very expensive lawyers. So the first thing I do is spend $60-$70 and get credit info on the *******.
In this particular case, all of Carl's major lending institutions possess the leins on his properties. Any efforts by me to try to collect would be a waste of my time and money in this particular situation. They would be fruitless.
I called some of the institutions and exchanged info with them. They are tired of the promises and are just now beginning to play hardball. If you want to buy Carl's old property in Pa, don't call Carl call the lending institution that now has it They have it for sale.
I don't care to list the whole book of debts but I will throw up a page for you. Call ANY of them and ask if the matter with Carl has been resolved. After you find out that none of them have been and they are all still current you can do what you want with your apology. I don't need one from you It is not between us Chuck. If only one person is saved from the nightmare that Mary and I have experienced, this thread will have been worth it. Make a call or 2 Chuck and report back to us with your findings
Respectfully
Steve Height
Edit - Personal info deleted (CPPOND)
Last edited by Carl; 04-11-2008 at 12:42 PM. Reason: derogatory reference and personal info deleted
My personal experiences with Keirin have been great, I like the fish I have bought. I have heard other stuff about other pond builds, heard interesting stuff from former employees and contractors at shows. Saw stephens pond in person when he had most of issues worked out, some of the mistakes were really basic stuff that I wouldn't have missed myself I don't consider myself at professional pond building level. I don't think the correct way to repair a $60k poly spray that has to have holes cut in is patch it with a Sherwin Williams sealer, I'm pretty sure the area should have been resprayed with poly.