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Thread: Masoten

  1. #1
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    Masoten

    Karl

    I understand that this is pretty dangerous stuff.

    " Masoten

    This is a product which has, until recently, been widely available. It was used for the treatment of the more stubborn parasites such as fish lice, anchor worm, leeches etc. It was used at a dose
    rate of 1 gm to 660 gallons of water at 55 F, up to a dose of 1 gm to 87 gallons of water at higher temperatures. It is however illegal and has been withdrawn from sale in the U.K. which has
    led to hobbyists using similar remedies which are NOT SUITABLE FOR THE TREATMENT OF FISH. These are: Dipterex, Naled etc. Masoten is not suitable for short term baths or dips.

    Beware of residual toxicity
    Beware of overdosing
    Do not store when mixed"

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dmd/keep/pondtreat.html


    Koi parasite Skin fluke
    Gyrodactylus - The Skin Fluke. (left)

    Koi suffering from infestations of gill flukes may suffer respiratory problems as the flukes begin to damage the delicate gill tissues. Secondary bacterial infection often occurs in koi left suffering from these parasites, due to the physical damage caused by the anchors.

    Chemical control of both types of fluke can be achieved with Chloramine T, Malachite Green and Formalin , Potassium Permanganate or Supaverm. In order to kill all generations, repeat treatments may be necessary, the frequency being dependent on temperature and chemical used.

    In our experience, Potassium Permanganate is the best 'legal' treatment for flukes, but one dose of Supaverm will eradicate flukes very effectively. Masoten can also be added to Malachite and Formalin to make this a more effective Fluke treatment.

    http://www.koicarp.org.uk/koi_parasites.htm

    TREATMENT

    If the life cycle of Gyrodactylus and Dactylogyrus is full understood treatment becomes much or effective and predictable, it must therefore be understood that save one treatment a single treatment alone will not eradicate gill fluke, so we must employ multiple sequenced treatments the time span of which will be determined by the water temperature, since we are aiming to catch the emerging hatchling fluke as well as the parent,
    The parent is easily dealt with by many treatments, potassium permanganate, formalin, chloramines T or Masoten, The latter of which is restricted in its use being an organophosphate, but ultimately has been over used by the Japanese breeders in their endeavour to over come fluke infestations and as such we have seen a mutation of fluke that can survive Masoten exposure
    Formalin whilst being effective treatment in many ways is a very efficient consumer of valuable pond water oxygen, and therefore as the koi may have compromised gill function would not be a first line choice of treatment.
    (Antibiotics do not eliminate flukes or any other parasites) just I case you were wondering, they only work against bacteria.

    http://www.koiquest.co.uk/flukey%20devil.htm
    Gill and skin flukes are common external parasites of koi presented to the Fish Health Service at the University of California, Davis. Therapeutic compounds commonly employed by koi hobbyists in attempt to treat external fluke infestations include salt, potassium permanganate, formalin (alone or in combination with malachite green), Fluke Tabs®, organophosphates (such as malathion, trichlorfon or Masoten®, Dylox®) and praziquantel (Droncit®). There are various difficulties encountered with these agents.

    http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/...me=Medications
    - presence of gill flukes on the gills and body

    - labored breathing

    - swimming in jerky motions

    - gill hyperplasia and increased mucus

    - long periods of rest at the bottom of the pond with clamped fins

    - reddening of some focal areas

    - can create entry points for secondary bacterial infections, which in turn can lead to gill diseases and ulcers

    - gill flukes are more difficult to treat than skin flukes

    - regular salt baths, as well as special treatments with malachite green and formalin may produce results; masoten may be required for severe cases

    http://www.waterjewels.com/koidiseases.htm

    Gill and skin flukes are common external parasites of koi. Therapeutic compounds commonly employed by koi hobbyists in attempt to treat external fluke infestations include salt, potassium permanganate, formalin (alone or in combination with malachite green), Fluke Tabs®, organophosphates (such as malathion, trichlorfon or Masoten®, Dylox®) and praziquantel (Droncit®). There are various difficulties encountered with these agents.

    Problems with commonly used treatments center around efficacy (i.e., a compound may not work effectively) and potential toxicity (to either the fish, the person applying the treatment, or the aquatic environment downstream). As examples of the former, we have increasingly observed salt and formalin to be ineffective for fluke eradication. This is presumably due to increasing resistance amongst strains of flukes that have been chronically exposed to these treatments. Potassium permanganate regimens, while usually effective, are sometimes complex for individual hobbyists to implement, and carry a fair degree of risk if excessive doses are delivered accidentally. Praziquantel is effective but expensive, and therefore is not usually a practical treatment for fluke infestations in the pond setting. Organophosphates, either used alone or in combination with a carbamate (as in the Fluke-Tab® product), have the multiple problems of developing resistance in the flukes (decreasing efficacy), potential toxicity to the fish if over-dosed, and environmental concerns (as well as safety concerns for the person applying the treatment).

    http://www.singaporekoiclub.com/know...edication.html
    -- Carl --

    You are cordially invited to apply for membership in the WorldWide Koi Club,
    the parent club of Koiphen.


  2. #2
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    Yeah, it's nasty. I was trying to confirm what I was told the Japanese are still using. I guess I was right.

    Thank you very much! You got more information for me today than I've found by myself in the last week!

    Karl
    Karl Schoeler, founder: EIHIOICGI

    Certified: AKCA Better Health Practices December 2008


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoiValley View Post
    Yeah, it's nasty. I was trying to confirm what I was told the Japanese are still using. I guess I was right.

    Thank you very much! You got more information for me today than I've found by myself in the last week!

    Karl
    I'm happy to do what I can to help.
    -- Carl --

    You are cordially invited to apply for membership in the WorldWide Koi Club,
    the parent club of Koiphen.


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by cppond View Post
    I'm happy to do what I can to help.
    Ok, I found a bit more while searching for the MSDS. It is trichlorfon. Many names, one of which is Dylox. I have about 10lbs.

    Edit: The MSDS on this stuff is not good. Amazing what we make to poison our environment.

    Karl
    Last edited by KoiValley; 02-18-2008 at 05:14 PM.
    Karl Schoeler, founder: EIHIOICGI

    Certified: AKCA Better Health Practices December 2008


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cppond View Post
    Karl

    I understand that this is pretty dangerous stuff.

    Masoten

    This is a product which has, until recently, been widely available. It was used for the treatment of the more stubborn parasites such as fish lice, anchor worm, leeches etc. It was used at a dose
    rate of 1 gm to 660 gallons of water at 55 F, up to a dose of 1 gm to 87 gallons of water at higher temperatures. It is however illegal and has been withdrawn from sale in the U.K. which has
    led to hobbyists using similar remedies which are NOT SUITABLE FOR THE TREATMENT OF FISH. These are: Dipterex, Naled etc. Masoten is not suitable for short term baths or dips.

    Beware of residual toxicity
    Beware of overdosing
    Do not store when mixed

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dmd/keep/pondtreat.html
    It has been brought to my attention that the information provided here was misread by someone and misstated on another chat board. Unfortunately, all kinds of misinformation is spread around the internet and we can't control that.

    However, in the event that anyone else misread the above post, it does not state that Masoten was not suitable for the treatment of fish. It says that the withdrawal from sale of Masoten in the U.K. "has led to hobbyists using similar remedies which are not suitable for the treatment of fish."

    Hopefully, this clarifies the issue for anyone that may have been confused?

    I am happy to do my part to stop the spread of misinformation on the web.
    -- Carl --

    You are cordially invited to apply for membership in the WorldWide Koi Club,
    the parent club of Koiphen.


  6. #6
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    Below is a link to the poison information profile at Cornell of Trichlorfon which is the generic name of masoten.

    It is certainly not something that hobbyists should use in its chemical form without great care and deliberation, though it is used in a processed form in some fish medications which is an entirely different matter. For instance, a hobbyist would not have to use protective gear to dispense Fluke Tabs as one would have to in order to use masoten.

    However, from what I have read, there is a substantial difference in using this chemical commercially and using this chemical as a hobbyist

    Karl, have you tried fluke tabs in combination with other fluke meds? I don't know if the product contains enough Trichlorfon to make a useful comparison to using it straight.

    http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles...orfon-ext.html

    There is some indication that trichlorfon is harmful to the immune system of carp. Of course, when trying to cure your fish sometimes you have to treat them with something that is potentially dangerous.

    The organophosphate insecticide Trichlorfon has been listed as a potential endocrine disrupter by the German Federal Environment Agency, who report that it can cause mammary tumours and affect sperm and egg production.A cluster of Down's syndrome children in Hungary was associated with consumption of fish from a local fish farm after the fish had become excessively contaminated by trichlorfon. A degradation product of trichlorfon, dichlorvos, has been shown to damage immune system function in humans; trichlorfon itself damages immune function in Carp.
    http://www.health-worx.net/brt_pesticides.html

    http://website.lineone.net/~mwarhurst/pesticides.html

    Trichlorfon, an organophosphorus insecticide, is used in aquaculture to eliminate fish ectoparasites. The present study was aimed at evaluating the effects of low concentrations of Trichlorfon (0.25 and 0.50 mg L-1 for 1 and 24 h) on selected haematological parameters and brain acetylcholinesterase (AChE) of subadults of common carp, Cyprinus carpio. Results showed that Trichlorfon had no significant effect on the survival and haematocrit values of the exposed fish. However, all fish exposed to Trichlorfon exhibited leucopenia coupled with lymphocytopenia. Upon transfer to clean water, leucopenia did not return to normal in seven days. Brain AChE activity of the fish exposed to Trichlorfon for 24 h was reduced by 55–57% compared with the controls and inhibition was not restored fully within seven days. Hence, precautions should be taken when even low concentrations of Trichlorfon are used in carp culture, especially for long-term treatments.
    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00002/art00005
    -- Carl --

    You are cordially invited to apply for membership in the WorldWide Koi Club,
    the parent club of Koiphen.


  7. #7
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    Masoten=Dylox=Dipterex=trichlorfon

    All the same stuff, different brand name.

    Once commonly used for flukes, lice and anchor worms, but resistance to trichlorfon is well documented in those organisms and it is not so commonly used any longer.

    Trichlorfon is a cholinesterase inhibitor and you can certainly kill koi with it.

    When combined with carbamate it is synergistic, this combination can be found in "Fluketabs".

    For me, I still find Superverm to be the most effective treatment for flukes. I've heard Praziquantal works well aslo, but it is too costly for me.

    Other organo-phosphates like Malathion, Fenthion, Sevin, etc. can be used to control parasites, but these are also very powerful poisons and the therapuetic dose is close to the lethal one.

    For hard bodied parasites like lice and anchor worms, the IGR (Insect Growth Regulator) Dimilin is very safe and effective.

    Brett

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbreeder View Post
    Masoten=Dylox=Dipterex=trichlorfon

    All the same stuff, different brand name.

    Once commonly used for flukes, lice and anchor worms, but resistance to trichlorfon is well documented in those organisms and it is not so commonly used any longer.

    Trichlorfon is a cholinesterase inhibitor and you can certainly kill koi with it.

    When combined with carbamate it is synergistic, this combination can be found in "Fluketabs".

    For me, I still find Superverm to be the most effective treatment for flukes. I've heard Praziquantal works well aslo, but it is too costly for me.

    Other organo-phosphates like Malathion, Fenthion, Sevin, etc. can be used to control parasites, but these are also very powerful poisons and the therapuetic dose is close to the lethal one.

    For hard bodied parasites like lice and anchor worms, the IGR (Insect Growth Regulator) Dimilin is very safe and effective.

    Brett
    Thank you, Brett. It is very helpful to get your perspective.
    -- Carl --

    You are cordially invited to apply for membership in the WorldWide Koi Club,
    the parent club of Koiphen.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cppond View Post
    It has been brought to my attention that the information provided here was misread by someone and misstated on another chat board. Unfortunately, all kinds of misinformation is spread around the internet and we can't control that.

    However, in the event that anyone else misread the above post, it does not state that Masoten was not suitable for the treatment of fish. It says that the withdrawal from sale of Masoten in the U.K. "has led to hobbyists using similar remedies which are not suitable for the treatment of fish."

    Hopefully, this clarifies the issue for anyone that may have been confused?

    I am happy to do my part to stop the spread of misinformation on the web.
    I see that the IP of the author of the erroneous post made on the other chat board has been parked on this thread most of the morning. I imagine a retraction of the bad info posted there will be forthcoming Scary how posts from one board can get twisted and turned around when posted on another.

    I guess this is typical of the posts out there that lack perspective or contain bad or misleading information. The only thing one can do is to be very careful

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