Fish nearly died, now abnormal behaviour

[maxinegrundy]

Sounds like a fluke infestation. The koi gasp for air, turn over and act like they are suffacating, because they are. Add some praziquantel or formalin if you are not able to scrape the gills for a scope diagnosis . Salt will not help and will only kill the koi on the edge.

Hello ...Fingers crossed for your return on Friday..that all is well..
Regarding the above quote...Dont add any chemicals to your pond without finding out first whats happening...
If you are to buy anything ...by a microscope ..not only will it help you find out if you have parasite problems you will be readily able to identify them and then treat with no mistakes with the correct treatments.
Try asking your local koi dealer if they will do a scrape for you they will check what gremlins you have on your koi..usually charge but it may put your mind at rest ..
I personally bought one ...and have found it usefull for the koi but for other things too .. the microscopic world is amazing if you have kids ..they will love it
Another way is to try and find a local club in your area someone from a club will have access to a microscope and in most cases are only too pleased to help.
Correct diagnosis is a must BEFORE putting any chemicals in your pond.
regards
Max
P.S Try this site http://www.koicymru.co.uk/links.htm
i know it's welch ..but there are links to koi clubs in south africa.


docballyhoo : salt WILL helps with flukes !
Salt causes osmotic shock to flukes sucks em dry !!!
Salt will control infestations IF they are on the koi.
Please read the link i posted earlier.
I personally dont think you gave good advice ..just to throw some chemicals in the pond on the off chance it's flukes..it's not good practice and on most occasions a waste of time and money ...causes the koi more stress than needed.

[gonecadd]

Just wanted to say Hope they all make it.

[Merlin]

Now I am no expert but by looking at the size of the pond , and based on what I have read , I believe oxygen is the main factor here . I feel that the water fall alone would not have been enough to supply the required air in to that size pond.

Not knowing much about the weather in south Africa, I have questions, what are the evenings like , are they humid , were there any thunder storms at home while you were away . Humid weather is another cause of oxygen depletion from our ponds, add that to the failure of your unit , then those fish would have been gasping for air.

Other things that spring to mind are , when your daughter changed the water , was a declore added . What were your water parameters ? do you do regular checks on them ?

Your water is the first place to look when you have a problem with your fish , if that is OK then we move on to parasites that may be attacking them . The more we know about your pond and your fish , the better equiped we are in helping you overcome those problems.

[Merlin]

Quote : I spoke to my koi guy, but he had no other explanations, except for a big pH drop or swimming bladder.

OK PH drop yes , but swim bladder in 3 fish within a week .

[avz10]

Well, I'm back and they have survived and nearly recovered.

I had my water tested today:
Ammonia: 0.1
Nitrite: 0
pH: 8.5

The smaller one (?bekko) is fine and has regained his appetite. The bigger one, the Kohaku-not a good example!! (but Im not in to showing) is still lethargic, not eating, but not gasping or turning on his back or side. Perhaps the battle is won!

My lesson is that I really do think it good have been lack of O2 with the Venturi stopping and the waterfall very slow. So perhaps a few less brain cells. It was just wonderful to share the experience with all of you plus the support I got.

[Merlin]

Hey ! great to hear that things are getting better .

[maxinegrundy]

Hello ..
Sounds like you have got on top of the problem, which is good.
You will always find support from other koi keepers as we have all at some time or another had a problem...and not known quite what to do ..or even understand whats happening.
I use a u.k site www.KoiQuest.co.uk i have found the people on there to be of tremedous help..and i have made many freinds.
One of my problems started with whitespot, i treated the koi and 1 month later they were still flicking and flashing.I asked for help within 2 days a super chap called Gerry came round and did scrapes and solved the problem ...it wasnt the whitespot returning ...it was the water very high nitrite ...if it wasnt for him i dont think any of my koi would have been alive.
So for one reason or another we all have to ask for help ....and the best people to ask are those who have been there !!
I hope your Koi go on to live happy healthy lives..
Oh and the kohaku ...looks great i'd have him in my pond
I have one just the same
this is my big baby ..she's called Holly
regards
Max

[avz10]

Well, things are not better and if I do not get urgent help, this fish will die.

As you will recall, two of the 3 fish that got affected, probably with an O2 deprivation, recovered. The third one is still struggling.

Normal behaviour is that she would lie on the bottom, occasionally gasp for air, and turn backside up. This has been going on for more than 2 weeks. Most of the time she is quiet on the bottom, and have not eaten

I did not use the salt bath, or dosed with any anti-paracytic treatment. She is now developing some bloody spots under the skin. Should I go for the salt bath (anything to lose?) or anti paracytic treatment? My koi guy can only come on Monday-if she is still alive

Any advice will be helpful, otherwise she will die.

(Late at night now, will hopefully get a number of replies tomorrow)

Two video clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMzgSWqh7j0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkKCuNRjAEQ

Water parameters still the same.

[vipldy]

Can you sedate the fish? Sure would like to see the gills..

Marie

[avz10]

This is what I could get, the others out of focus- will try later again

[stephen44]

bump

[vipldy]

I wish you could have lifted that gill plate a but higher..I don't see chew marks but the tips of the gills look a bit light.

Marie

[avz10]

AS things go, I am leaving early tomorrow morning for the week. Will need to wait and see what is happening this week. My filters are clean. So I suppose there is nothing more In can do?!

Off to bed now

[avz10]

Just when I thought the fish were recovering, (me on the road again), the family phoned and said the black and white one is turning on its side as well (again, after recovering). The Kohaku has been quiet, not eating and hiding in a corner, but the bleeding under the skin has disappeared and the gasping less. This problem has been going on for at least 3 weeks now.

They arranged for my koi guy to come out, who said 4 of the fish had an infection of the gills, apparently the gills are pink and not red, and put a white powder in the pond that needs to be added every few days-as you can see, all second hand news. The water colour apparently has changed a lot (always worried about my bio filter).

I will phone him tomorrow, but any comments in the mean time?

[avz10]

Well, from my observation, nothing has changed.

The koi guy thought it was an early gill infection with pink , not bright red gills. He started with PP, 30g every second day in my 10 000 liter pond. Second dose was given this afternoon. In total 5 doses.

I stopped the waterfall so that the venturi will run stronger. Problem is, this has been going on for more than 3 weeks.

If it is an infection, should I wait and see, or perhaps also add my parasite cure, which consists of Malachite green 6mg and Formaldehyde 40% per ml.

I post this link to show how the koi was acting this pm, otherwise lying still.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-SUA0hVwDs

Venturi now:

[Joey S]

I am confused. You say your Koi person added a white powder - for bacterial gill problem. What was it?

Then you say he started with PP which is definitely not white, but in strong doses, a bright purple. BTW PP is a good treatment to clean the pond before using something like Malachite/Formaldehyde.

Finally, the M/F is for parasites, not bacterial problems. Is there anyway you can pull the fish and do a scrape and scope for parasites?

[rainblood]

Have you recently added koi to your collection? Do the scales feel smooth and slimey or rough like sandpaper? I've had the same symptoms in my pond before it was completely wiped out.

[avz10]

I was away when I got the message about the powder- It is definately purple-clearly PP. My problem with PP is that it really caused havoc with my filters in spring (summer now). I can bypass 2 filters, but one I cannot bypass. After 4 hours yesterday, I added some HP 30%, (50ml) and then later last night I did a massive water change. Hope most of the HP will be out when I add the PP tomorrow.

Scrape and scope is very difficult and costly, the guy was here already. But I will catch the fish later this morning and give more detail

[avz10]

Forgot to say, last new fish added were 9 months ago.

[avz10]

Tested my water parameters today:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
pH: 8.5

Added koi clay, and looked at the gills; they look ok to me ( the photos are the gills of both fish).

Don't know what else I can do, cause two are really affected