• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 72 of 72 FirstFirst ... 6269707172
    Results 1,421 to 1,434 of 1434

    Thread: Birdman's Sand/Gravel Filter

    1. #1421
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is online now Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is usually here but if not I'm
      probably off flying
       
      Feeling:
      Piratey
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      25,592
      Quote Originally Posted by LatkaLivesOn View Post
      Since the water is fed from the bottom, if it is entering the filter at just under 2000 GPH, how much "slow down" is it getting before it exits the barrel at the top 3" outlet? Also, I thought this whole time that this filter must have to flow back to the pond via gravity flow alone, but if the water is forced upwards thru the filter by a pump, it would be forced out the outlet also, correct? The outlet only has to be slightly above the point the pipe enters the top of the waterfall. Is that right or does it need to be elevated at all?
      If the s/g filter is exiting to a waterfall and the return is very short, it can be the same height. Like Holland said,
      a larger outlet insures that you don't need much height at all to flow out of the barrel via gravity.
      I measured the head from the media alone to be about 11"-17" (clean vs. dirty) so the pump would see the head
      sort of like this:

      Name:  pump head for sg  filter.jpg
Views: 191
Size:  40.5 KB
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    2. #1422
      pickerel is offline Supporting Member
      is studying every day at Koiphen
      University
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      May 2018
      Location
      SC
      Posts
      183
      Quote Originally Posted by IAmHolland View Post
      I know what the instructions said and I have one. It doesnít look round, more square-ish (obviously with sweep 90s), which is why I asked.

      Thanks though, clearly itís a trick of the eye with the round grate
      Yes, the grate is hiding the truth. If you look at the Tees at the end of the manifold "legs" you can see that they are set back from the edge of the biggest row of holes more than the area between the tees.

    3. #1423
      kimini is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      1,161
      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      If the s/g filter is exiting to a waterfall and the return is very short, it can be the same height. Like Holland said,
      a larger outlet insures that you don't need much height at all to flow out of the barrel via gravity.
      I measured the head from the media alone to be about 11"-17" (clean vs. dirty) so the pump would see the head
      sort of like this:

      Name:  pump head for sg  filter.jpg
Views: 191
Size:  40.5 KB
      If that drawing is a side view, I respectfully disagree on the head that the pump sees. All the pump knows is the differential pressure from inlet to outlet. Assuming the drawing is a side view, the static head the pump sees will be from the surface of the pond to where the water exits the outlet pipe at the top of the waterfall; the plumbing in between doesn't affect that. The dynamic head will always be higher due to the back pressure caused by friction from the pipe, pipe bends, and the partially-clogged filter media.

      I know you're pretty smart, so maybe I'm misunderstanding the drawing; does it represent a top or side view?
      Last edited by kimini; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:08 PM.

    4. #1424
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is online now Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is usually here but if not I'm
      probably off flying
       
      Feeling:
      Piratey
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      25,592
      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      If that drawing is a side view, I respectfully disagree on the head that the pump sees. All the pump knows is the differential pressure from inlet to outlet. Assuming the drawing is a side view, the static head the pump sees will be from the surface of the pond to where the water exits the outlet pipe at the top of the waterfall; the plumbing in between doesn't affect that. The dynamic head will always be higher due to the back pressure caused by friction from the pipe, pipe bends, and the partially-clogged filter media.

      I know you're pretty smart, so maybe I'm misunderstanding the drawing; does it represent a top or side view?
      You're giving me more credit than I deserve , but you're right, and when I was drawing it I thought about going into
      what the pond water height was and the difference if the pump was below water level, but I was trying to keep it as
      simple as possible, so it's sort of drawn both ways. So the "pond" and the line drawn to the pump is really just to represent
      the incoming water to the pump and we'll say that the pump itself is right at pond water level. I think that should make the
      lines representing static head of the pump and filter closer to reality.
      Thanks kimini for making that clarification.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    5. #1425
      LatkaLivesOn is offline Supporting Member
      is Feeling excited for my new
      pond!
       
      Feeling:
      Piratey
       
      Join Date
      May 2018
      Location
      GA
      Posts
      42
      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      If that drawing is a side view, I respectfully disagree on the head that the pump sees. All the pump knows is the differential pressure from inlet to outlet. Assuming the drawing is a side view, the static head the pump sees will be from the surface of the pond to where the water exits the outlet pipe at the top of the waterfall; the plumbing in between doesn't affect that. The dynamic head will always be higher due to the back pressure caused by friction from the pipe, pipe bends, and the partially-clogged filter media.

      I know you're pretty smart, so maybe I'm misunderstanding the drawing; does it represent a top or side view?
      So, I have my pump situated below water level of the main pond, in the bottom of a barrel holding 55 gallons of water at a time, so the pressure through the pump is significant already. This outlet runs approx 23' total from the pump outlet to the top of the S/G filter where it exits to the waterfall. (There are bends and valves along the way so I know that adds to the head calculation, but for this question we will leave that part out.) Only 5' of this piping is above the waterline of the pond. So, is the head I am supposed to use in my pump's GPH calculation the 23' or just the 5' above water line the water has to go since water primarily seeks it's own level without needing pumped? This will obviously make a big difference in the flow from my pump.

      Name:  20180829_090534.jpg
Views: 140
Size:  33.3 KB

    6. #1426
      IAmHolland is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Land of Infernos
      Posts
      109

      Birdman's Sand/Gravel Filter

      .
      Last edited by IAmHolland; 3 Days Ago at 01:31 AM.

    7. #1427
      pickerel is offline Supporting Member
      is studying every day at Koiphen
      University
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      May 2018
      Location
      SC
      Posts
      183
      Here's a good link that discusses how to calculate head. He lays it all out very clearly, but I've read it 6 times and still don't get it.

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...imer-Version-2

    8. #1428
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is online now Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is usually here but if not I'm
      probably off flying
       
      Feeling:
      Piratey
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      25,592
      Quote Originally Posted by LatkaLivesOn View Post
      So, I have my pump situated below water level of the main pond, in the bottom of a barrel holding 55 gallons of water at a time, so the pressure through the pump is significant already. This outlet runs approx 23' total from the pump outlet to the top of the S/G filter where it exits to the waterfall. (There are bends and valves along the way so I know that adds to the head calculation, but for this question we will leave that part out.) Only 5' of this piping is above the waterline of the pond. So, is the head I am supposed to use in my pump's GPH calculation the 23' or just the 5' above water line the water has to go since water primarily seeks it's own level without needing pumped? This will obviously make a big difference in the flow from my pump.
      If for clarity you leave out the head from the fittings, friction from the water volume pumped, AND media and
      only consider the vertical lift you've almost got it; but the lift would be from pond water level to the bottom of
      the outlet, since when the barrel is filled from the bottom and it starts dumping out the outlet to the waterfall,
      it's only lifting it to the outlet and not the very top of the barrel... but that probably only equates to 6" or so.

      Name:  Image1.jpg
Views: 117
Size:  55.4 KB

      Iirc, what Garrett does in his document is takes the whole distance, 23', and measures the distance the pump is
      under pond level, i.e. 18', and subtracts it from the from the that 23' which should give you the same 5', or
      whatever it is from pond level to bottom of the output of the filter.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    9. #1429
      KEN L. is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      North Reading Ma.
      Posts
      33
      I am in the process of installing a 3" RBD into a 55gal SC then to pump. From pump to Bead filter to SG filter back to pond . The SG filter is Birdman design. 2" shower drain intake with 3" clean out and discharge. My question is I have 3" going from RBD through SC and to pump. Should I have 3" from pump to Bead filter to SG filter to 2" shower drain? Or can I use 2" the whole way? Thanks Ken

    10. #1430
      Mild Bill's Avatar
      Mild Bill is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Crazy
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2009
      Location
      Pa.
      Posts
      1,063
      We have 3" from skimmer to pump then 2" from pump to three S/G's in parallel, works well.

    11. #1431
      KEN L. is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      North Reading Ma.
      Posts
      33
      Excellent!! Thank you Bill

    12. #1432
      kimini is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      1,161
      I've been running two of these for about 15 months, both based upon Birdman's parts kits. I clean them once a week, and the incoming water flow splits literally right between the two to ensure equal flow. Before cleaning, I always drain a few inches of water to purge anything that might be stuck on the inlet side, then do the usual air purging. Over time, one filter has developed consistently worse flow than the other, even after cleaning. This last week's cleaning shows that things are getting worse; in order to have equal water height on the output side now requires reducing the flow on the "good filter" by about 80%. It's very puzzling about what it could be though. I'd expect that between draining the input side and doing the air purge, the two should fully rid the assembly of whatever's in it. Has anyone else experienced this and what did it turn out to be?

      I guess I could take it in steps, that is, take out only the sand on the "bad" filter and see if flow is restored. If not, there's probably a serious blockage on the input side that isn't draining out.
      Last edited by kimini; 5 Days Ago at 03:53 PM.

    13. #1433
      IAmHolland is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Land of Infernos
      Posts
      109
      .
      Last edited by IAmHolland; 3 Days Ago at 12:43 AM.

    14. #1434
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is online now Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is usually here but if not I'm
      probably off flying
       
      Feeling:
      Piratey
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      25,592
      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      I've been running two of these for about 15 months, both based upon Birdman's parts kits. I clean them once a week, and the incoming water flow splits literally right between the two to ensure equal flow. Before cleaning, I always drain a few inches of water to purge anything that might be stuck on the inlet side, then do the usual air purging. Over time, one filter has developed consistently worse flow than the other, even after cleaning. This last week's cleaning shows that things are getting worse; in order to have equal water height on the output side now requires reducing the flow on the "good filter" by about 80%. It's very puzzling about what it could be though. I'd expect that between draining the input side and doing the air purge, the two should fully rid the assembly of whatever's in it. Has anyone else experienced this and what did it turn out to be?

      I guess I could take it in steps, that is, take out only the sand on the "bad" filter and see if flow is restored. If not, there's probably a serious blockage on the input side that isn't draining out.
      I only have flow dedicated to each s/g filter separately but never had one need flow increased from when it started.
      I'll be interested to see what's causing the increase in head.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    Page 72 of 72 FirstFirst ... 6269707172

    Tags for this Thread

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •