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Thread: Bottom Drain To Filtration, The Smartest Addition any Ponder Can Make!!!

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    Exclamation Bottom Drain To Filtration, The Smartest Addition any Ponder Can Make!!!

    This thread is composed of some of the best threads/posts found on Koiphen about bottom drains and how they work and why most of us have learned they are the #1 component a pond should have. Their main purpose is to have less pond maintenance and remove debris from the bottom of our ponds that can ultimately kill our wet pets.
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    Question WHY have a Bottom Drain and Skimmer??

    This question seems to be asked quite a bit and many of us know why, and many of us have learned the hard way. The most popular submersible pump system and a waterfalls type filter, are being sold to ponders every where. We often here at Koiphen find ourselves helping newbies that have not been exposed to GOOD filter systems that require a bottom drain and skimmer.

    Well I think by just throwing my liner in my dirt hole for the last 6 months may explain better with pictures why it is important to have a Bottom Drain and Skimmer.

    Pic.1 This is water in a pond with no skimmer yet a Bottom Drain not hooked up yet, and no netting for leaves. Notice the nice brown tanic acid stain of decaying leaves.
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    Pic.2 The pond halfway drained, you can start to see the dirt and debris in the pond. If a Skimmer was running the leaves would have been taken care of as they entered the pond, and any that managed to sink would be sucked up by a proper BD and TPR placement where necessary for circulation toward the BD.
    Also notice in all of the pictures the leaves are not moving toward the Little Giant 3600 GPH pump . So the great garden center pumps and a filter falls is not getting much of anything out of your pond, and this was just 6 months worth.
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    Pic.3 Getting close, Notice the stream of water coming from the side of the pump. OH i know the pump is just slightly more than 1 year old and the warranty has gone, about to poop out. I know this well, it is my 4th one, and at about $150-$170 a pop not worth wasting your time on for continuous use, for once in a while to drain ponds and tanks, they are ok. But an out of water pump uses about 1/3 the electricity and last for years running 24/7 , and can be repaired. Why did I not learn this about 13 years ago. No internet and Koiphen.
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    Pic.4,5,6 This is what you have in 6 months without a Bottom Drain and Skimmer, and your choice of the many types of mechanical and biological filters that are hooked to them.
    Just imagine what would be in there after a few years , if you did not completely drain and clean it out once in a while. And if you add plants and fish this build up of waste and debris is about tripled.
    So please look hard at a Bottom Drain and Skimmer for your next or first pond, and ask the members here for help, we seem to like other ponders and want them to experience ponding not cleaning.
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    Pic.7-8 I just wanted to be like my new mentor Stephen and send my 5000 gallons of pond water to my neighbors.
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    To view the entire thread click here:
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39858

    A link to elaborate more on this subject by Boggen:
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showpost.php?p=848996&postcount=22
    Last edited by Leekinneykoi; 04-15-2007 at 12:40 PM.
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    Explanation - Bottom Drain, TPR, Air and Pond Dynamics

    By Ronin-Koi / AKA, Wayne

    I thought it would be helpful for those new to pond construction if I posted an explanation of some common koi pond features that many forum veterans take for granted. Quite often, I read posts by members that indicate some confusion on the operation of some essential components of a koi pond, and the benefits that they offer in keeping the pond functioning effectively. I also see a lot of posts by people who question the need for some of these elements, especially bottom drains and aerators (air diffusers), primarily because of the added difficulty in installing them.

    Hopefully, the below illustration will help to shed some light on how these components can create efficient flow dynamics to keep our koi ponds clean. Maybe as newer members design their new ponds, or ponder the next re-do, they will consider adding these features onto their system. If you have any questions, or have any other comments, feel free to post.

    - Wayne, thinks of the pond system as a large toilet bowl, that effectively moves all debris OUT of the pond, and into the filters.

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    To view the entire thread click here: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46535
    My favorite Quotes:

    The person who makes no mistakes usually does not make anything.
    Everything starts as somebody's daydream
    Experience is a dear teacher, but fools will learn from no other


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    Installing a 4" bottom drain

    By Gene of Koi Village .com

    Below are photos showing how to install a 4" through the liner bottom drain.
    I'm installing this one on a 1,000 gallon tank we use here at the farm for
    quarantine and holding. This tank will be used to test filters that are
    compatible with a 4" bottom drain.

    Dig the hole large enough for the bottom drain and some concrete. It is important to use concrete around the bottom drain to insure it does not shift. I used two 40 lb. bags of "Quick Crete".















    Once you've excavated the hole and trench for the pipe make sure the bottom
    drain and pipe are level.





    I'm using one of the regular 4" ABS bottom drains that we have modified to include an air diffuser. Anytime you glue ABS to PVC you will need to use the “All Purpose Glue” for ABS and PVC. It will indicate on the can that it is for both.











    The photos below show the bottom drain after the concrete was added. This will prevent the bottom drain shifting and pulling on the liner.





    I used the white tarp shown in the previous photos for the underlayment. I prefer using the geotextile underlayment, but didn't have any and I didn't want to wait for it. This tank along with the others outside will be removed within a couple years anyway.

    These are the tools needed to install the drain through the liner. Utility knife to cut the liner, small nail to puncture the liner for the screws, screwdriver, screws, and clamp ring. Be very careful with these sharp tools while in the pond. It is safer to put all of them into a bag or bucket so you don't accidentally lay one down and step on it. That may puncture your liner in a place not intended.



    Use a utility knife to cut around the inside of the bottom drain sump. Lift the liner up so you can see the holes for the screws and use the nail to puncture the liner for one screw and then again on the opposite side.

    Before installing the clamp ring put a bead of the sealer of your choice around the rim of the bottom drain in front of the screw holes and press the liner down gently. I like to use the "Plumbers Goop".



    Place the ring over the bottom drain and start the screws in the holes you have made. This will insure that all the other holes are lined up correctly.



    Now you can use the nail to puncture all the other holes for the screws.



    Tighten all the screws just enough so they are touching the top of the ring and then start tightening one at a time working from one side to the other so you get equal pressure all the way around the ring. You need to go back and forth several times. Once all the screws are hand tight you are done with this part.





    If you are using an aerated bottom drain connect anything needed for the air.

    Use a shop vac to vacuum out any debris that have collected in the bottom drain.



    Install the dome and you're finished.



    I use "tees" instead of "elbows" for the connection to the filter so I can put in another valve to be able to drain the entire tank when I want to. It is also good to have so you can flush your 4" pipe to remove any debris that may have settled in it over time.



    Below are photos of the bottom drain after the tank was filled. It is 3' deep. The pine needle is floating on the top of the water. The second photo shows the diffuser with a Dolphin AV50 connected.







    Some questions and answers from this great thread:


    Quote Originally Posted by Clay
    Hi Gene. Thanks for sharing. I want to know more about this and why it is plumbed this particular way. Thanks
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    Rick, I use a 4" "tee" and add a valve so the pipe can be flushed out at a later date. It also allows me to completely drain the tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by rocmon
    That's a great pictorial. Wish I'd seen that BEFORE I installed mine...

    In your installation, I could understand why you might want the drain pipe level but in any regular pond where it has to rise some or not, is it important as well?.
    Yes. Do not start raising the pipe until it is outside the pond. Below are a couple drawing showing the best way to raise it.





    Quote Originally Posted by rocmon
    Is that an el-cheapo 4" BD with a DIY air pipe installed through the bottom or—details? Looks like you put the anti-backflow in a place that can be accessed later if needed... I like that.
    That is the less expensive 4" ABS bottom drain (Koi Village price $69.95). I send them to a fab shop and have them modified for the diffuser. The price goes up to $195.00.

    Don't skip this one more good stuff in the whole thread.
    To View the entire thread click here: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46081
    My favorite Quotes:

    The person who makes no mistakes usually does not make anything.
    Everything starts as somebody's daydream
    Experience is a dear teacher, but fools will learn from no other


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    Existing Pond Bottom Drain Install

    Also By Gene of Koi Village .Com
    Below is a link to a pictorial where Gene goes to help a Koiphen Member add Bottom Drains to an existing pond that did not have any.

    Many people are afraid to attempt this but no matter how hard it can be it is worth the effort in the end.

    If your pond liner is not buried with many rocks on the edging it is simple to remove the liner or fold it back to do this.

    In this case there were to many rocks to remove but as you will see it can still be done by just opening up the side of the pond wall you need the pipes to go through and making room under the liner to work.

    So if you have thought of adding a bottom drain by all means read check out this link.
    http://www.koiclay.com/dale/april_27_2003.htm
    My favorite Quotes:

    The person who makes no mistakes usually does not make anything.
    Everything starts as somebody's daydream
    Experience is a dear teacher, but fools will learn from no other


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    More Bottom Drain Things To Know

    The old saying there is more than one way to skin a cat applies to installing your bottom Drain.
    Each pond builder may do it different to meet their ponds construction needs. In the Start To Finish Pond Projects Sticky Thread you will find links to many members pond build threads, in almost of all of them you will see how they chose to install their bottom drain(s), my guess if you are going to build you will find a thread with a pond similar that may help you in your planning stages. Reading and seeing step by step pictures is what makes this forum tops above the rest.

    Again I wish to use a thread by Ronin-Koi (Wayne), he had a separate thread from his pond construction on just his Bottom Drain install.
    His pond will be a solid concrete bottom and block sides with a poly type sealer applied, there fore his circumstances warrented him to make his BD super stable. This is one example , I having a clay bottom and EPDM liner simply put concrete around the BD without rebar support, my point is to help you understand the many ways this can be done.

    Installing The Koi Village Aerated Bottom Drain
    by Ronin-Koi

    I posted this in the trader forum to answer someone's question about the Koi Village Aerated Bottom Drain. Thought it might be of interest in the construction forum as well, so here it is. I decided to use some epoxy at the air connection like HarveytheKoi, and installed some vertical rebar like Clay.

    I bought the last two drains that Gene had from his first batch of aerated bottom drains.

    Photo 1. Parts that come from Gene. In the zip lock are screws for attaching the liner ring.
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    Photo 2. Fittings for the air line at the bottom of the bottom drain. The air line on the drain is threaded femal 3/4". I used a 3/4" elbow, short piece of 3/4" pipe, a 3/4"x1" reducer, and then to a 1" 45 degree elbow. This would fit into the 1" line to my filter chamber. I got some pipe joint compound for the threaded connection.
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    Photo 3. The bottom drain is made of ABS, so I used all-purpose cement to glue on my 4" dia. PVC 45 degree elbow. I chose to use two 45 degree elbows rather than straight to a 4" pipe because I will be installing a concrete floor for my pond and I wanted thicker concrete over the pipe, especially right at that connection.
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    Photo 4. Both bottom drains all glued up.
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    Photo 5. Bottom drain in the ground with rebar around it, in a hole waiting for concrete to be poured to set the bottom drain.
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    Photo 6. Bottom drain installed with about 8 inches of concrete underneath it for support with a rebar ring and vertical rebar to tie into the top layer of concrete to be poured separately. The 4" drain line sits on the right, and the 1" air line is on the left.
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    Hope that helps to explain at least one way to install the Koi Village Bottom Drain. Hope this also convinces lots of people to go out and buy them. Gene's a good guy, and I am happy with the product... or at least I think I will be once the pond is completed and the drains are operational.

    http://www.koivillage.com/

    - Wayne, will start a thread on construction of the rest of his pond in the next day or so, hopefully.


    Near the end of this same Thread Wayne works his Graphic Magic again and provides this drawing on setting the BD's gap.
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    Also Boggen used this picture above and made a graph to help you set the gap for various dome sizes click here:
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showpost.php?p=848800&postcount=19

    Boggen never tires of trying to help others so here are some more drawings by him of advanced gap settings and charts along with them, click here:
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showpost.php?p=851333&postcount=38


    Wayne's thread has some good discussion on concrete also so be sure and Check it all out here:
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27131
    My favorite Quotes:

    The person who makes no mistakes usually does not make anything.
    Everything starts as somebody's daydream
    Experience is a dear teacher, but fools will learn from no other


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    Some ways to retro airless bottom drains

    Inexpensive Bottom Drain Diffuser by Gene


    Here are pictures of an easy and inexpensive way to add air to your regular bottom drain dome. The diffuser hose is thicker walled than the weeping hose for irrigation. The air can be supplied to the dome via the self-sinking black air hose.





    See the whole Thread here:
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41628



    Retro Drain with Air? by nicco

    The screen filters are still working and are getting rather boring now, reliable enough that they don't need any special attention.

    Another rainy day in SoCal so in door stuff getting done. Attached an air dome to a retro drain. I use the retro drains because the only place for the pond is in the front yard and that's where the sceptic field is. So cannot dig more than a couple of feet and cannot put too much weight of water on the leech field, so can only go so deep and so high up. A regular drain would end up into the leech filed lines, so next best is the retro drain.

    Glued the dome to the drain. Then stuck some horse shoes into the gap between the air dome and the drain to weigh it down followed by plaster of paris to fill the gap. The sealed the plaster with polyurathane sealant.

    Of course if anything goes wrong with the diffuser, I'd have to scrap the whole thing.
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    Another small step. Installed a barbed elbow to the inlet of the air dome to take 1/2 in hose.
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    weaselman
    Just got my retro drain from AquaArt and would like to place the 9" air ring ontop. I know someone has done this retro and was wondering how it went and where is the post?

    Anybody who has done this has the line running into the drain to the air ring impact the waste going out?
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    Harveythekoi

    I had a 3" tetra drain modified similar to the heights your showing here. Maybe a little less. While it did help the water is drawn to where the air bubbles start and much debris collected under the diffuser. That's why Nicco enclosed that area. Don't get me wrong it will help, it's just not as efficient as it could be.

    For the temp pool I modified mine with a flexible tube diffuser along the edge. Be sure to raise it an inch or so or air will be drawn under the drain, silicone the tye wrap holes also. This worked great except it took a hefty pump to overcome the back pressure of these types of diffusers. In retrospect a 3/8" nylon tube around the perimeter with tiny holes drilled in it would work fine. I'm talking a #60 - #80 drill every ¼" - ½" or so. Use a smaller hole towards the front and a little larger towards the rear, this will help the air travel all the way round rather than escape at the first set of holes. This would allow a much smaller air pump.

    The finer bubbles from a diffuser will give much better oxygen transfer to the water but as an air lift to help in drawing things towards the drain a larger bubble will work just fine.
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    Kent Wallace

    Try this.
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    My favorite Quotes:

    The person who makes no mistakes usually does not make anything.
    Everything starts as somebody's daydream
    Experience is a dear teacher, but fools will learn from no other


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    Do all bottom drain installations assume piping back up to filtration equipment at the top of the pond/water level? We have terraces continuing down the hill below our pond which would make a great way to keep filters, pumps, etc out of sight but I'm wondering what happens when the power fails? It seems like the water is going to continue to drain under siphon pressure.

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    If you were wanting to have the filtration below pond level, you really need to use bead type filters that are enclosed, pressure fed filters. The sand gravel or any of the other filtration systems that are open topped would continue to flow the water from the pond to the level of the filter top.
    Member MAKC


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    Cool a great project

    professional thread, too long to read, learn so much !!
    Quote Originally Posted by Leekinneykoi View Post
    The old saying there is more than one way to skin a cat applies to installing your bottom Drain.
    Each pond builder may do it different to meet their ponds construction needs. In the Start To Finish Pond Projects Sticky Thread you will find links to many members pond build threads, in almost of all of them you will see how they chose to install their bottom drain(s), my guess if you are going to build you will find a thread with a pond similar that may help you in your planning stages. Reading and seeing step by step pictures is what makes this forum tops above the rest.

    Again I wish to use a thread by Ronin-Koi (Wayne), he had a separate thread from his pond construction on just his Bottom Drain install.
    His pond will be a solid concrete bottom and block sides with a poly type sealer applied, there fore his circumstances warrented him to make his BD super stable. This is one example , I having a clay bottom and EPDM liner simply put concrete around the BD without rebar support, my point is to help you understand the many ways this can be done.

    Installing The Koi Village Aerated Bottom Drain
    by Ronin-Koi

    I posted this in the trader forum to answer someone's question about the Koi Village Aerated Bottom Drain. Thought it might be of interest in the construction forum as well, so here it is. I decided to use some epoxy at the air connection like HarveytheKoi, and installed some vertical rebar like Clay.

    I bought the last two drains that Gene had from his first batch of aerated bottom drains.

    Photo 1. Parts that come from Gene. In the zip lock are screws for attaching the liner ring.
    Name:  Wayne1.jpg
Views: 21303
Size:  144.2 KB

    Photo 2. Fittings for the air line at the bottom of the bottom drain. The air line on the drain is threaded femal 3/4". I used a 3/4" elbow, short piece of 3/4" pipe, a 3/4"x1" reducer, and then to a 1" 45 degree elbow. This would fit into the 1" line to my filter chamber. I got some pipe joint compound for the threaded connection.
    Name:  Wayne2.jpg
Views: 21226
Size:  73.7 KB
    Photo 3. The bottom drain is made of ABS, so I used all-purpose cement to glue on my 4" dia. PVC 45 degree elbow. I chose to use two 45 degree elbows rather than straight to a 4" pipe because I will be installing a concrete floor for my pond and I wanted thicker concrete over the pipe, especially right at that connection.
    Name:  Wayne3.jpg
Views: 21138
Size:  97.8 KB
    Photo 4. Both bottom drains all glued up.
    Name:  Wayne4.jpg
Views: 20572
Size:  66.5 KB
    Photo 5. Bottom drain in the ground with rebar around it, in a hole waiting for concrete to be poured to set the bottom drain.
    Name:  Wayne5.jpg
Views: 22027
Size:  71.4 KB
    Photo 6. Bottom drain installed with about 8 inches of concrete underneath it for support with a rebar ring and vertical rebar to tie into the top layer of concrete to be poured separately. The 4" drain line sits on the right, and the 1" air line is on the left.
    Name:  Wayne6.jpg
Views: 21776
Size:  100.6 KB
    Hope that helps to explain at least one way to install the Koi Village Bottom Drain. Hope this also convinces lots of people to go out and buy them. Gene's a good guy, and I am happy with the product... or at least I think I will be once the pond is completed and the drains are operational.

    http://www.koivillage.com/

    - Wayne, will start a thread on construction of the rest of his pond in the next day or so, hopefully.


    Near the end of this same Thread Wayne works his Graphic Magic again and provides this drawing on setting the BD's gap.
    Name:  Bottom Drain Gap.jpg
Views: 20131
Size:  125.9 KB

    Also Boggen used this picture above and made a graph to help you set the gap for various dome sizes click here:
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showpost.php?p=848800&postcount=19

    Boggen never tires of trying to help others so here are some more drawings by him of advanced gap settings and charts along with them, click here:
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=38


    Wayne's thread has some good discussion on concrete also so be sure and Check it all out here:
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27131

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