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    Thread: Sodium percarbonate uses in fish ponds

    1. #1
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Sodium percarbonate uses in fish ponds

      Sodium percarbonate is the most convenient form of buying and storing a ready supply of hydrogen peroxide for various uses in fish ponds. I buy mine from:

      http://www.chemistrystore.com/sodium_percarbonate.htm

      The primary use of sodium percarbonate is as a laundry bleaching agent. For example the active ingredient in OxyClean is sodium percarbonate.

      Price at the above vendor is $4 for each 2 pound bottle. Sodium percarbonate is a dry powder which is simply a molecule of sodium carbonate with a molecule of hydrogen peroxide bonded to it. As soon as the sodium percarbonate solid is added to pond water, or any other water, it immmediately begins dissociating into sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide.

      So some of you want to know why I am starting this thread about a relatively unknown chemical? Actually, it is starting to become known since the ponding products Green Clean and D-Solv are simply sodium percarbonate relabeled for pond use. Since the brand names Green Clean and D-Solv are sold at a significantly higher price than generic sodium percarbonate, I prefer to buy mine as the generic package and save significantly on the price per pound.

      I bought 15 of the 2 pound bottles of sodium percarbonate this Winter to have on hand when stringy algae shows its ugly head in the late Winter/early Spring ponding season. And last Sunday, a week ago, there it was in all its ugliness in our golden orfe/lotus pond as shown in two pictures below.

      See posts below where I killed out the stringy algae in a week using the sodium percarbonate.
      Attached Images Attached Images   
      Last edited by Roddy Conrad; 03-18-2007 at 04:31 PM.
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    2. #2
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Adding the sodium percarbonate

      Below find a picture of the sodium percarbonate and a picture of the active killing of the stringy algae using the powder sprinkled directly on the algae beds.

      In a week's time I used all of one 2 pound jar of the sodium percarbonate and half another one killing out the algae in this 1000 gallon pond.
      Attached Images Attached Images   
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    3. #3
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      Are there fish in there when you are doing this?

    4. #4
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      A week later

      Below are pics showing practically no remaining stringy algae a week later from the application of the sodium percarbonate.
      Attached Images Attached Images   
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    5. #5
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      The dead algae

      While killing the algae with the sodium percarbonate, I had to quickly remove the dead algae since it fell apart and rapidly would blind my small mechanical filter element for that pond. A picture of the dead algae from the application of the sodium percarbonate is shown below, huge wads of it were netted out of the pond on a daily basis as it died from the sodium percarbonate additions, so don't start this unless you are going to be around for dead algae removal.
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    6. #6
      Leekinneykoi's Avatar
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      Great thread Roddy, thank you.
      I take it by the last picture it has not hurt the potted plant as they seem to be sprouting?
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    7. #7
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      I did this process with two ponds loaded with a very high fish density, one full of large golden orfes below all that horrible stringy algae, the other full of lovely large sarassa comet goldfish.

      The LC50 (dose at which 50% of the fish die if the dose remains active for two days and has nothing to react it away) of sodium percarbonate is (to my recollection, will check and post on this again) about 0.6 pounds per 1000 gallons. However, with stringy algae present, the hydrogen peroxide component of the sodium percarbonate immediately reacts with stringy algae as it is produced form sodium percarbonate hydrolysis, so there was never much active dissolved hydrogen peroxide during the treatment.

      It works to get rid of stringy algae, and certainly should help clear the brown color of the pond water. And can be used to reverse PP treatments, and to be used instead of low level PP treatments to improve water quality.

      I have just been playing with it for a week now, thought some of you with the normal spring stringy algae season would find these trials interesting.
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    8. #8
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      It won't hurt the potted plants. It won't destroy the wall fuzz algae unless you overdo it.
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    9. #9
      vipldy's Avatar
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      And the fish are in there and fine?

      Marie
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    10. #10
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      The fish are all doing well and developed a huge appetite from rapidly improving the water quality by oxidizing the crud in the fish ponds by using the sodium percarbonate.

      My primary interest in sodium percarbonate is to use INSTEAD OF low level PP treatment for controlling the organic load and color of fish ponds. The low level PP treatment works and is cheap enough, but the useful dose is about 10% of the lethal dose, so lots of cautions need to be given for PP dosing of fish ponds.

      The sodium percarbonate should be much more forgiving than low level PP dosing.

      I plan to continue using low level PP dosing for my koi ponds because it works for me just great, and is really, really cheap to use.

      For others who get nervous at using something regularly at 10% of the lethal dose rate, maybe sodium percarbonate is a better choice for the same purpose.

      I plan to continue using sodium percarbonate all this season on these two ponds, namely our golden orfe and sarassa comet goldfish pond, all season to see how effective it is in maintaining clear water with no algae with a cheap DIY filter system.
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roddy Conrad View Post
      The fish are all doing well and developed a huge appetite from the rapidly improving the water quality by oxidizing the crud in the fish ponds by using the sodium percarbonate.

      My primary interest in sodium percarbonate is to use INSTEAD OF low level PP treatment for controlling the organic load and color of fish ponds. The low level PP treatment works and is cheap enough, but the useful dose is about 10% of the lethal dose, so lots of cautions need to be given for PP dosing of fish ponds.

      The sodium percarbonate should be much more forgiving than low level PP dosing.

      I plan to continue using low level PP dosing for my koi ponds because it works for me just great, and is really, really cheap to use.

      For others who get nervous at using something regularly at 10% of the lethal dose rate, maybe sodium percarbonate is a better choice for the same purpose.

      I plan to continue using sodium percarbonate all this season on these two ponds, namely our golden orfe and sarassa comet goldfish pond, all season to see how effective it is in maintaining clear water with no algae with a cheap
      DIY filter system.

      Question,will this lower nitrates

      Marie
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    12. #12
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      I do not expect sodium percarbonate or hydrogen peroxide to oxidize nitrates.

      If you have an uncontrolled algae bloom, and kill it with sodium percarbonate, there will be less algae to consume nitrates. So nitrates could go up with sodium percarbonate use.
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roddy Conrad View Post
      I do not expect sodium percarbonate or hydrogen peroxide to oxidize nitrates.

      If you have an uncontrolled algae bloom, and kill it with sodium percarbonate, there will be less algae to consume nitrates. So nitrates could go up with sodium percarbonate use.

      You are so right..My bad

      Marie
      Marie

      Have You Hugged Your Koi Today Ruby's Keeper


    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roddy Conrad View Post

      I plan to continue using sodium percarbonate all this season on these two ponds, namely our golden orfe and sarassa comet goldfish pond, all season to see how effective it is in maintaining clear water with no algae with a cheap DIY filter system.
      Thanks again for all you do to help and teach us all, I will be waiting to hear more of your experiences this season.
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    15. #15
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Orp

      Roddy,

      What is the effect of the Sodium Percarbonate on ORP values? I know that as a neutralizing agent for PP, it lowers the ORP. Will you be able to keep high ORP values?

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    16. #16
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Richard, that is a very good question. Unfortunately, the two ponds where I am doing this test work has no good place to put an ORP meter where it can be protected from being "eaten" by our two big herding puppies. They chew everything up!

      Determing what sodium percarbonate does to ORP values is definitely near the top of my list of ponding technology to develop.

      It is good to see the "right questions" about this topic appearing, even when I don't have the answer (yet).
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    17. #17
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Thanks. I will be looking forward to the results of any tests.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    18. #18
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      Doc Roddy, I bought the Green Clean last year. I've yet to try it
      on the "green water" in the 6000 gal pond. Do the pond "numbers" have
      to be at any certain point to use the Green Clean?

      I'm going to use it in the next few weeks.
      Thanks!!
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    19. #19
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      The pond "numbers" do not have to be at any particular point to use Green Clean or D-Solv or sodium percarbonate. These three labels are all the same exact material.

      I used much more than the Green Clean or D-Solv bottle label advice for using sodium percarbonate to kill algae. It worked, and cleaned up the brown color of the water and cleaned the yuck up at the bottom of the pond. This is a great option for cleaning up the rock bottoms of Aquascape ponds, In My Opinion.
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    20. #20
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      Thanks, Doc Roddy!! I appreciate it very much!!
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