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    Thread: Deja view

    1. #41
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      Perry Slocum, Ray Davies, Norman Bennett, Philip Swindells have all gone on record stating the priority of maintaining disease free collections. I heard all sorts of mendacity and downright lies from many folk selling, trading infected plants over the years when I was a kid. It won't wash. I don't buy it.

      New plants here are isolated and disinfected for at least a year before they are trusted, I get know who have reliable plants.

      With having a collection of over 100 Nymphaea varieties, that testifies measures here have been effective for many years. Twenty plus years. Date stamped Kodak slides on file, year after year they grow, they bloom, disease free. See the photo's? It does not happen here, does it... Because it is eliminated and it is kept that way

      Many varieties of hardy and tropical waterlily are reputed to be destroyed by crown rot... Varieties such as Pink Beauty, Arc-en-Ciel, Gloriosa, Attraction, Lucida, James Brydon...

      This is what a disease free Lucida does in a shallow full sun hot position. Blooms in sixes and twelve's from Spring onwards. Blooms that stay open very late in the day and heat tolerant! In heat that would turn fickle tropicals and many other red blooming varieties, to mush. A very robust dependable plant, is a disease free Lucida. Very very reliable indeedy. A keeper!

      Regards, andy
      http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html


      Last edited by andrew davis; 02-04-2007 at 01:15 AM.

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    2. #42
      CraigP's Avatar
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      I can't think of any legitimate grower that doesn't understand the importance of maintaining a disease free collection.

      That is a distinct benefit of being a registered nursery. The stock is inspected regularly by a state 'Plant Specialist' and there is immediate, free access to the state plant path lab should a problem arise.

      Being realistic about the possibilities of infections from sources other than lilies, we continually sanitize everything from shears to the tables to the liners of ponds between plantings. There are chemicals available that I've mentioned in the past that are as effective as bleach and less damaging to the plants and environments.

      In addition, since some Phytophthora are known have host plants ( I think the list for P. ramorum is approaching 200 known hosts), I assume all plants in and around Nymphaea are suspect as carriers, so prophylatic measures are always in place.

      Lately I've been playing with biofungicides to see if they are effective in saturated soils...either solo or in combination with synergistic chemical fungicides and the results look promising.

      Finally, I am getting closer to be a "closed' nursery...part of the reason I don't do open trades with unknown partners.

      Are my efforts effective? I have never once had a plant path report come back on a lily showing the existence of crown rot, so I have to say yes. And that is without harsh disinfective treatments and a year plus isolation.

      If you are interested intrying any of my protocols....just ask.
      Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is. And you must bend to its power or live a lie.”― Miyamoto Musashi

      "Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." ~ Jimi Hendrix

      “The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”― Stephen Hawking


      Craig

    3. #43
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      oh. plenty of protocols were effective and in place a loooong time ago here. I look forward to adding a few more bits and bobs over the years, knowing how effective isolation and disinfection methods can be.

      Panama Pacific was an interesting addition, to compare with Tina and Niemi's Opal. It stood up to the hottest sunniest pond last Summer, on its own isolation pond. Flawlessly sending up a series of blooms, attractive foliage, modest spreading habit, the vip's doing fairly well indoors.

      I'll be curious to see if the flowering tuber, which set no spare tubers survives outdoors this Winter, compared to Tina which seems about the most cold tolerant of all the tropical day bloom waterlies. Every position of Tina survives Winter outdoors usually, though a few are brought inside just to err on the side of caution...

      Regards, andy
      http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html



    4. #44
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      Last Summer was a good test of heat tolerance through July. 70's- 80's water in the shade, upper 90's water in full sun. Air temps in the shade 100°f at times, on sunny exposed ground, 130°f

      Among some of the Hardy reds and pinks, Atropurpurea, James Brydon, Almost Black, Perry's Baby red, Froebeli, Gloriosa, Attraction, Burgundy Princess, L.Fulgens, Escarboucle, Splendida etc show quite different levels of coping, Laydekeri Lilacea in particular...

      It more or less died in a hot sunny position when waters rose through the seventies. Top foliage stopped in its tracks, turned to mush. Similar were many of the tropical day blooming waterlilies which failed completely in hot sunny positions. Lilacea was quickly moved into shade where it spent the rest of the Summer barely recovering.

      Another position of the same plant in a well shaded, late afternoon sun only, had three, four, five blooms on the go, a pleasant sight on a blistering hot sunny day. Very attractive foliage and blooms through the heat in the shade

      A very attractive, petite small spreading plant in cool Summer latitudes, excellent in hot Summers, if shaded from midday heat. Blooms just 2" to 3" in size, spreading two or three foot wide.

      Regards, andy
      http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

      Last edited by andrew davis; 02-10-2007 at 09:03 PM.

    5. #45
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      Night bloom tropical waterlily Red Cup growing sedately in a three gallon pot of just plain clay, one or two blooms most of the time. Sometimes a position will fire up and bloom, sometimes a position will just plonk along making new offsets and tubers.

      A pleasant modest size and spread, an open growing habit which can be stunted or pushed, three to six feet wide... very reliable at setting tubers... pops a good pod of reliable seed now and then, copes flawlessly with excessive heat, very cold tolerant winter dormancy surviving outdoors under ice in zone 8 most Winters

      Pleasant vivid red blooms opening from dusk up until noon the next day, a favourite roost for dragonflies during the day..., striking maroon foliage in a sunny position turning more of a plain deep green grown in shade.

      Regards, andy
      http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html


    6. #46
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      With all the various hybrids about, it is fairly easy to forget the foundation of their origin, in many cases among the hardies, Nymphaea Alba. The success of its hybrids can better be appreciated when you notice what a wide range of distribution the parent plant tolerates, a very robust reliable plant

      Regards, andy
      http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/
      Quietly tucked away in a deep shadey pond, catching a few rays. Not bad for a golden oldie.

    7. #47
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      Fairly typical among the day bloom tropical waterlilies, Bagdad chose to tease with very attractive foliage and a few buds up to July.

      It promptly turned to mush and more or less died in the heat of midsummer. Moved to a larger volume pond with a notch more shade, it barely recovered to set three tubers in time for Winter.

      Next Summer it will be planted in mid shade, poised to be moved to more shade when the water temperature starts to approach its now known heat tolerance limit, or to move to a sunnier pond if the Summer turns out to be all cool and cloudy with tropical storms... maybe I'll find out what level of viviparity the lilypad reputation lives up to

      Regards, andy
      http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html


    8. #48
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      Puttering steadily along in both the cool of an English Summer and the scorching droughting heat of a full sun shallow pond in the Carolinas... Nymphaea Chromatella

      Regards, andy
      http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html



    9. #49
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      Ah, the riddle of Queen of Siam

      In a dull Summer it may not bloom, at all.

      In a hot Summer it may flower like billio in the hottest shallow sunny pond when all the other tropical waterlilies around it are withered and turning to mush, the blooms are a bit so-so sort of things with a very nice scent...

      However, when it is grown in considerable shade, shaded heavily from 10am to 3pm, the blooms are far more eyecatching...

      But will it set a tuber? Nay nonny never nicht nien rien not a bit

      Fortunately the lilypads are slightly viviparous, about 5% success rate.

      When you begin to get the hang of it in about the third or fourth year of growing it, you just might persuade it to not only reliably flower, it can set 6 to 12 very, very reliable tubers each year...

      Quite the tease.

      Regards, andy
      http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

      Water temps, 100°f hot sunny shallow pond

      Stunting down to barely two foot wide

      Spreading four foot wide, in midday shade position
      Last edited by andrew davis; 03-06-2007 at 03:05 AM.

    10. #50
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      While not a photograph from this Summer, it illustrates something which is a feature of the best robust varieties.

      Hardy waterlilies are by and large so reliable there comes a point when you have so many favourite photo's, it becomes difficult to top what is already on file.

      Of course, if one year you did not quite get round to catching a good variety of hardy waterlily at its best, you can be quite confident you will get another chance to catch it early next Spring and Summer.

      The same cannot be said for the majority of tropical waterlilies, cynically distributed with thoroughly inadequate cultivation information, many of which varieties have severe flaws and shortcomings when grown outside the limited range of the Tropics.

      You might consider a big box waterlily far better value than an expensive fancy schmancy label with an inadequate non existent description and instructions of a tropical waterlily

      Mayla, by sheer virtue of consistent steady prolific blooms and performing well in every position could be said to be one of the most photogenic

      Regards, andy
      http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html
      Early Spring, starting out a little pale in tone

      Late Summer, cooking on a high nineties pond the colours becoming more vivid toward Autumn. Typically in flower for six months of the year and more
      Last edited by andrew davis; 03-10-2007 at 10:07 PM.

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    11. #51
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      Responding quite well to a standard potting mix of plain loam and clay, with a modest supplement of one spoon of fertiliser per gallon potting mix, Red Flare coped good and steady with excessive heat through Summer.

      The night bloomers get a range of potting here, some have small pots with no supplement, some have a standard one spoon per gallon mix, some extra fertiliser, planted in positions which vary from full shade, to full sun. I never know if the Summer will be drought and heat, or overcast with storms, bets are always hedged...

      Sedate blooms in one's and two's, modest spread of about five feet wide, neat foliage spread. Rather a neat lilypad spread, neither too lanky (which is typical of many tropicals) nor does it pile up a lot of untidy foliage. By Autumn it had set several small and one large conglomerate tuber, which store indoors very easy.

      A particular feature is the rather garish colours of the lilypads with the first frosts, quite eyecatching yellow and maroon tones. Goes out in a blaze of colour

      Regards, andy
      http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

      Late Summer photo, no pruning or trimming of foliage through its growing season

    12. #52
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      Coping almost flawlessly through the heat of Summer on the hottest pond, Perry's Baby Red has a well deserved reputation for a very reliable growing habit and a modest small to medium size lilypad spread.

      Quite prolific blooms three to five at a time are to be expected, which begin to spoil on the very hottest days, when air temps are 100°f

      Grown on a small pot with low fertility Baby Red stunts to a small size, lilypads spreading a foot or two wide. Grown bare root in a mud pond and it will double its size and bloom at a quite different rate

      Regards, andy
      http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html



    13. #53
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      Tropical day bloom waterlily 'Colorata' looked quite promising on the hot sunny ponds, leafed up and bloomed quite perky late June. Very interesting to compare it with Wood's Blue Goddess and Director Moore.

      As July heat approached and the carnage of heat tolerance emerged among the tropical day bloom waterlilies, it was hardly noticed that Colorata too, turned to mush and its pot forgotten, left for dead. Feeble insignificant leaves showed through August and September.

      In October, what were presumed to be dead tubers were lifted, a large conglomerate tuber and multiple near inch size and dinky tiny tubers. Until I looked at the label, Colorata had been forgotten.

      A pleasant surprise, each tuber started up with steady 70°f warmth indoors... A reprieve, no less

      Regards, andy
      First and last bloom '06

    14. #54
      CraigP's Avatar
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      As much as I hate to intrude, in the interest of accuracy for people that may be new to nomenclature and wanting to write it properly....

      Correctly it is not 'Colorata', but rather N. colorata, as it is a naturally occuring species lily and not a cultivar, the species name is always started in lower case and no single quotation marks used.

      Conversely Wood's Blue Goddess and and Director Moore are cultivars and are correctly written as 'Wood's Blue Goddess' and 'Director George T. Moore'. Cultivar names do begin with upper case and are enclosed in single quote marks...and the full name is always given.
      Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is. And you must bend to its power or live a lie.”― Miyamoto Musashi

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      Craig

    15. #55
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      It is common custom in publishing and plain language to abbreviate ridiculously long names. For example 'Madame' is often abbreviated to M.

      'Director George T. Moore' is normally referred to as 'Director Moore'

      I quite like capitolising names consistently where they are used as a title on a photograph and to abbreviate them in the interest of brevity (some names are just too long and messy)

      To apply academic conventions and introduce apparent inconsistencies to folk who by and large, are not in the slightest bit interested in the obscure, pedantic academic conventions of nomenclature, well, that might make the subject shall we say, a muddle

      Obviously, folk who are of a pedantic academic disposition can choose to write it the way they like it.

      Regards, andy
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    16. #56
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      <Sigh> I specified the corrections were for those "interested in the proper use of nomenclature" , my suggestions were obviously not directed at you...hence my concern on intruding.

      << 'Director George T. Moore' is normally referred to as 'Director Moore' >>

      ... is that a fact? Lmao, 'normal' for the lazy maybe. I defy you to produce one reputable reference were the lily's name is abbreviated thusly.

      Where in the international conventions on nomenclature is allowed that the choice of name be declared "ridiculously long" and an option to pervert it to a shorter length be excercised? Bad luck on Pring's part to befriend /work for someone with a "ridiculously long name." I guess.<g>
      Last edited by CraigP; 03-22-2007 at 08:33 PM.
      Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is. And you must bend to its power or live a lie.”― Miyamoto Musashi

      "Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." ~ Jimi Hendrix

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      Craig

    17. #57
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      State your opinions without referencing eachother or characterizing eachother's remarks, then move on, please. You both provide an opportunity for us to learn. Please do not detract from or undermine that.
      -- Carl --

    18. #58
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      >> ... is that a fact? Lmao, 'normal' for the lazy maybe. I defy you to produce one reputable reference were the lily's name is abbreviated thusly.

      Guess who did these abbreviations in their notes:

      Pan.Pac. oval. g. Stella G. Persh. Whit.g. Hitch. Indep. Haarst. Sturtev. W.Wilson g. marm. Pan. White Vivip. Edw. C. Eliot

      None other than George Pring... hohum.

      Anywhooo... Perry's Orange Sunset on a hot sunny pond. Quite often puts out two to four blooms at a time right through the worst heat of July, at temperatures where many day bloom tropical waterlilies are turning to mush.

      Alas the purveyors of tropical waterlilies conveniently fail to mention that many tropical day bloom waterlilies are fickle unreliable plants with inferior heat tolerance characteristics compared to hardy waterlilies.

      When reaching their heat tolerance limit, most flowering hardies slow up blooming and resort to putting up smaller lilypads, while flowering day bloom tropicals, when they reach their heat tolerance limit, turn to mush and die.

      Of course, if you notice this, folk who sell such fickle inferior plants supplied with thoroughly inadequate cultivation information, will typically resort to specious arguments, blaming the grower.

      I'd suggest you never waste a dime on a tropical waterlily, unless you get accurate cultivation information direct from the grower. Huge amount of variation in heat tolerance, quite surprising...

      Regards, andy
      http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

      Last edited by andrew davis; 03-22-2007 at 09:13 PM.

    19. #59
      CraigP's Avatar
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      And pray tell how abbreviations in personal notes are related how to the subject at hand? The question was:

      <<I defy you to produce one reputable reference were the lily's name is abbreviated thusly.>>

      Even allowing the ridiculous list as a stretch, where on it is the abbreviation 'Director Moore' used.?

      Forgive me for giving too much credit and not specifying "published reference materials".
      Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is. And you must bend to its power or live a lie.”― Miyamoto Musashi

      "Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." ~ Jimi Hendrix

      “The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”― Stephen Hawking


      Craig

    20. #60
      andrew davis's Avatar
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      And pray tell how abbreviations in personal notes are related how to the subject at hand? The question was:

      <<I defy you to produce one reputable reference were the lily's name is abbreviated thusly.>>

      Who said this message board is a botanical reference.

      It is not, it is a public message board. My notes and photographs are personal notes. Not botanical references. If I choose to abbreviate a long winded name that very few folk use, for a name that is more in common useage, that's my editorial choice

      Oh, and by the way Craig, what is your opinion on the subject of heat tolerance among day bloom tropicals. Care to specify what level of shade material is appropriate to avoid destroying plants when full sun ponds go over 95°f. Care to explain why you have chosen to avoid answering such a simple question

      Or, by chance, do you choose to avoid the subject, because you knowingly distribute delicate plants to very certain destruction and choose to not provide competent cultivation information. Just curious.

      I certainly know you sent me plants with thoroughly inadequate misleading instructions which resulted in plant destruction.

      Regards, andy
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