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Thread: DIY Bakki Shower

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    DIY Bakki Shower

    I have attached photo's of our twin five tray bakki shower-see "SA koi Pond thread". The bottom tray is empty and the four trays above contain a total of 100kg of Old & new bakki media per 4-tray stack. Holes have been drilled along the bottom of each tray holding bakki media. Unlike other Bakki Showers the only air collected comes from the top tray. Other Bakki Showers allow air access between trays. Here is my question-should the trays be separated to allow air movement to each tray from the sides or will this arrangement work drawing air only from the top tray?

    see photo's attached.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

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    I am thinking of building one myself. I think they would need to be seperated for air. I looked at the stainless stel version and each section was seperated by 8-10 inches. I would guess the more aerobic the better. Therefore the more aeration/oxygen the better. Otherwise they look great.

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    Why not drill holes in the sides of the trays up close to the tops ?

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    its simply not gaps for air to go through shower. but they are wanting so air gets pulled or pushed through the media along with the water. in simplisty they want alot of saturation of both air and water across the entire media. just not a specific spot. aka they don't want channeling.

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    The system as installed is pulling a large amount of air from the top, through the bakki media and out through the waterfall and bypass. I shot some video to document this: http://web.mac.com/emarsh/iWeb/Bakki...%20Shower.html. Consequently I think the media has plenty of oxygen. There are two reasons I am reluctant to drill holes in the boxes. One is that doing so might create a source of leaks. The other reason is that I'm concerned that the boxes might be weakened by the holes.

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    DIY Bakki Shower

    This is a new approach staking the trays without separation or lots of ventilation for each tray. All the photo's taken of DIY and production BS have additional lateral air-exchange. Momentaro design and articles in Koi Carp also stess the need for lots of flow (we have) and lots of de-gasing /oxygen exchange.

    Eric has designed a new approach for us-no criticism- but any new approach needs to be reviewed. I like new approaches if they are as efficient as existing designs or better. Yes the single 4" Bakki discharge line (HenryC-used two 4" discharge lines) boils up beneath the water line 12" or more beneath the water line-(if not running to the waterfall). This may or may not IMHO represent max air exchange as designed by Momentaro.

    Has anyone tried this method or experimented with a closed system like this? When the only source of air/gas exchange comes from the top of the stacked trays? Henry used additional structural support to keep the plastic trays from expanding or folding (wire I believe)-jump in HenryC when you can. Eric has a great idea, this eliminates most water from escaping-but we must be sure the system is working at its entended design capabilities. I would appreciate additional comments from this forum so Eric/Janet and I may make the right decision regarding the final design of this BS. I hope to complete this project with Eric & Janets cooperation this weekend or the first part of next week. The last piece of equipment will be delivered end of this week (Vortex for second set of BS).

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    DIY Bakki Shower

    Last note: Looking back at this, it would have been nice if there was a clear viewing port or window along the ends or sides of each try to monitor the flow and media development of each tray. Risking biasness for leaks but I am sure it could be done. -Just a thought-

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    Logically the more air the better... better may be undetectable though. To try you can put spacers between the boxes. Looks like you have a little hight available for small spacers. You should be able to detect a change by adding / removing the spacers if the added air exchange is improving effectiveness.

    Stan

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    Yes, my design is a little different but I've always been prone to thinking outside the box.

    I don't think that putting spacers between the trays will work with this particular set of trays. The trays are designed to interlock which gives them greater structural integrity. Without interlocking the weight of the media tends to pull the upper sides of the trays inward, causing them to distort.

    How much air is enough? That is an excellent question, one that I don't have an answer to. However we do know that bateria does just fine when submerged and that oxygen levels in water are a small fraction of a percent. Thus when exposed to air the bacteria should have tens to hundreds (or even thousands) of times more oxygen than when submerged.

    Essentially I just don't want to make a mistake that would damage the trays. I'm inclined to err on the side of safety.
    Last edited by Eric Marsh; 07-12-2006 at 10:02 AM.

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    Shower filters are about gas exchange as much as bacteria growth. That is the part that may be hindered by less air.

    Are the trays PVC... If so you may be able to glue 4" elbows on the sides pointing up to allow air without leaking.

    I agree that you do not want to screwup the trays but the added air can only help...

    Stan

    Edit: Also plastic vents with the openings pointing up...
    Last edited by Sellis; 07-12-2006 at 10:04 AM.

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    Arn't these the same trays Henry used ???????

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    Eric and Farne, I was wondering where you got the trays? I think that they are wonderful. If you look at this link: http://www.koipondfiltration.com/trickle%20tower.htm you will see that the builder, had to put sides up to keep the water from splashing all over. Those crates are not air tight when stacked and far from it. I would run it as is before putting holes in it and see what the water parameters are and then make a decision on what to modify. If you modify you might need another mod to modify the mod. It's already built, run it and then do water tests. It will be interesting to see other responses.

    Rick

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    DIY Bakki Shower

    Clay your right these are the same trays. I would like to hear from HenryC regarding the holes he drilled along the top of each tray. I know he recommended keeping all holes at leas 2" from the edge-I assumed he meant the holes drilled in the bottom of each tray.

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    Farne, here is HenryC's info - send him an email and ask him to respond to this thread. It's hard to see or catch all of the threads on an active board: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/member.php?u=92

    Rick

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    Blow smoke over it......

    That will give you agood indication of the volume of air being drawn in. Stan made a good point about gas exchange though and an open sided or gapped tray style would for sure be better than closed sides. I guess it all depends on what you want from it.

    Garrett

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    DIY Bakki Shower

    I just sent HenryC an e-mail. Should be hearing from HenryC soon. I am leaning towards making sure each tray is exposed. I wished Momotaro was a subscriber to this forum, I would like to hear what he has to say or someone who works with him.

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    Clay is offline
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    Farne, Yume is the Momotaro distrubutor and has some good info on this site:

    http://www.yumekoi.com/articles.html

    http://www.yumekoi.com/products.html

    have fun with the research.

    Rick

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    I drilled the holes at the top of the sides to try to get more air flow in the containers. The original Momotaro stainless steel trays are separated by a large air gap. I was concerned that with the entire structure being enclosed, I would not get the same amount of fresh air in the lower trays. Do the holes drilled in the sides provide more air? Probably. Would there be sufficient fresh air without the holes? Heck if I know. You probably are getting a good bit of air pushed/pulled down with the shower of water (as Eric suggested).

    If you do drill the holes in the sides, keep them at the very top and above the level of the bacteria house media. I believe you took my advice and kept the holes drilled in the bottom of each tray at least 2" away from the sides. I had to retrofit mine because I drill my bottom holes to close to the sides and I had water leaking out the side holes. Now that I have no holes within 2" of the sides, I no longer have any water leaking out the sides. If you are worried about structural soundness, you probably could drill fewer holes than I did and still get more than enough air flow.

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    ... and I would definately not try to make a gap between those containers. They are made in interlock into one another. If you try to make a gap between them, I would think you would lose some of the structural integrity.

    Henry

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