Installing the Koi Village Aerated Bottom Drain

[Ronin-Koi]

I posted this in the trader forum to answer someone's question about the Koi Village Aerated Bottom Drain. Thought it might be of interest in the construction forum as well, so here it is. I decided to use some epoxy at the air connection like HarveytheKoi, and installed some vertical rebar like Clay.

I bought the last two drains that Gene had from his first batch of aerated bottom drains.

Photo 1. Parts that come from Gene. In the zip lock are screws for attaching the liner ring.

Photo 2. Fittings for the air line at the bottom of the bottom drain. The air line on the drain is threaded femal 3/4". I used a 3/4" elbow, short piece of 3/4" pipe, a 3/4"x1" reducer, and then to a 1" 45 degree elbow. This would fit into the 1" line to my filter chamber. I got some pipe joint compound for the threaded connection.

Photo 3. The bottom drain is made of ABS, so I used all-purpose cement to glue on my 4" dia. PVC 45 degree elbow. I chose to use two 45 degree elbows rather than straight to a 4" pipe because I will be installing a concrete floor for my pond and I wanted thicker concrete over the pipe, especially right at that connection.

Photo 4. Both bottom drains all glued up.

Photo 5. Bottom drain in the ground with rebar around it, in a hole waiting for concrete to be poured to set the bottom drain.

Photo 6. Bottom drain installed with about 8 inches of concrete underneath it for support with a rebar ring and vertical rebar to tie into the top layer of concrete to be poured separately. The 4" drain line sits on the right, and the 1" air line is on the left.

Hope that helps to explain at least one way to install the Koi Village Bottom Drain. Hope this also convinces lots of people to go out and buy them. Gene's a good guy, and I am happy with the product... or at least I think I will be once the pond is completed and the drains are operational.

http://www.koivillage.com/

- Wayne, will start a thread on construction of the rest of his pond in the next day or so, hopefully.

[Gene]

Nice work, Wayne!

Thanks for posting it. I'm looking forward to more.

[Orfe]

What was the thinking behind the rebar?

[mstrseed]

What was the thinking behind the rebar?

Strength, always use it with concrete especially were you don't want to have to dig it up.

[Clay]

Looks great Wayne. You'll be done with your pond before I finish mine. It's about 43 degrees outside right now and headed toward 39 for tonight. My construction season is just about over.

The rebar helps with the cold joint between this small pour and the floor.

Rick

[Ronin-Koi]

Strength, always use it with concrete especially were you don't want to have to dig it up.

Mstrseed and Clay pretty much summed it up. Concrete has great strength in compression but is pretty weak in tension. Steel on the other hand has high tensile strength. So by imbedding reinforcing steel inside the concrete, the construction is much stronger and the likelihood of fracture or failure is reduced.

So in setting the drains, I put in a rebar ring to strengthen that block of concrete, and added the short vertical sections so that this block can better tie into the upper concrete since they are poured separately and will have a weaker "cold joint."

As an FYI, it took four 80 pound bags of Quikrete concrete to set each bottom drain.

I set these bottom drains a couple weeks ago when it was pretty dry (this was before all the rain which turned my hole into a mud pit). I lined the hole for the driains with plastic sheeting because dry dirt can absorb the water from concrete which again could weaken it. I used the plastic to keep the concrete pure without losing water and without mixing with the dirt.

All of this is all probably waaaay over-kill and might not be necessary. But I rather take the extra few steps now, rather than lie in bed a year from now after I spend a pretty penny on some nice koi wondering ... "is that bottom drain going to hold?"

- Wayne, hopes to never see the bottom of that bottom drain again.

[Ronin-Koi]

Looks great Wayne. You'll be done with your pond before I finish mine. It's about 43 degrees outside right now and headed toward 39 for tonight. My construction season is just about over.

Rick, I don't know about that. The wind chill this morning got me to realize winter is right around the corner. Meanwhile, leaves -- they are turning and falling already!! I hope the fall goes slowly, otherwise, my hopes of getting water in the pond this year will be shot. :mad:

Rick, what did you do, if anything to protect your bottom drains from freezing during the winter, during your construction last winter? I hope not to have to worry about that, but just in case I do not finish the pond before snow comes, I would like to know what options there are. I have thought about sticking an electric heater in my Bottom drain and 4" pipe up to the filter pit. But am worried about melting the PVC.

Any thoughts everyone?

- Wayne,... must... have... water.. in ... POND...soon...

[Clay]

Wayne, I bought 4" plumber's test plugs and put them in the drains which kept water out of the pipes. Then I covered the drains with plastic and duct taped the plastic. Nothing broke so that is what I will do again this year.

What are you going to use for a concrete sealer in your pond? Many of them have to have the concrete stand for 30 days before they can be applied. If you build your walls over the next few weeks and then wait another 30 days for the sealer the snow will be flying here by that time.

Rick

[Ronin-Koi]

Wayne, I bought 4" plumber's test plugs and put them in the drains which kept water out of the pipes. Then I covered the drains with plastic and duct taped the plastic. Nothing broke so that is what I will do again this year.

What are you going to use for a concrete sealer in your pond? Many of them have to have the concrete stand for 30 days before they can be applied. If you build your walls over the next few weeks and then wait another 30 days for the sealer the snow will be flying here by that time.

Rick

Rick, You were able to put the test plug inside the sump area of the bottom drain? Smart thinking. I am trying to figure out how to seal the entire bottom drain, and also provide structural support for the middle stem/check valve against 3 ft of snow and ice.

I mentioned over in the "Rain Before Pouring Concrete" thread that I am considering pouring the filter pit and the floor of the pond before putting up my walls (or at least most of my walls). If I do this, the floor should have enough time to cure. The walls and rendering on the other hand... ? Are you going to put rendering on your block, or will you seal right on top of the block? I am thinking about using Surewall or Quickwall (I keep forgetting the name) as rendering.

As of today, I am planning on using Sanitred as the pond sealer. Some still question if it will last 10 years in a koi pond application, but I can not wait 10 years to find out, and it seems like a reasonable product and see no reason for it to fail. What are you planning to use to seal your pond?

- Wayne, will either really enjoy his pond 5 years from now, or will be on here with a generation of Koiphen pond builders trying to figure out how to re-seal the Sanitred pond.

[Clay]

Wayne, yes I put the test plug directly inside of the sump area of the drain. This year in addition to what I did last year I might try to put a modified rose cone over the drain too.

No rendering here. Will apply santitred directly to the block.

Yes, if we don't do it right we will all be asking the same questions. I expect those questions to come up but closer to 15 years than 5.

Rick

[Leekinneykoi]

[QUOTE=Ronin-Koi] I am trying to figure out how to seal the entire bottom drain, and also provide structural support for the middle stem/check valve against 3 ft of snow and ice.
Hi Wayne, you and I seem to be in the same boat with our pond progress.
I mixed 4 loads and finished my top concrete edge fineally.
If you have a scrap piece of liner you could seal your bottom drain with silicone after you put the pressure cap in just in case, the liner should pull off pretty easy from the silicone, and then support a strong board or plywood with brick/block just above the bottom drain top and then drape plastic over it all and mound up sand all around the board edge to keep most of the water out when the heavy snow melts. Just a thought since I may be doing something like this also. I would post a picture of my GENE DWANE WAYNE (could not resist since I can not say this) if it was not under 2 feet of water.

[Ronin-Koi]

I mixed 4 loads and finished my top concrete edge fineally.

Cool. By top concrete edge, do you mean your entire pond bottom that goes to your bottom drain? Or a concrete ring around your drain? Are you going to be able to finish before winter?

If you have a scrap piece of liner you could seal your bottom drain with silicone after you put the pressure cap in just in case, the liner should pull off pretty easy from the silicone, and then support a strong board or plywood with brick/block just above the bottom drain top and then drape plastic over it all and mound up sand all around the board edge to keep most of the water out when the heavy snow melts. Just a thought since I may be doing something like this also. I would post a picture of my GENE DWANE WAYNE (could not resist since I can not say this) if it was not under 2 feet of water.

Haha.. Gene Dwain, Wayne... funny guy.

I was thinking maybe I could use the liner ring that came with the drain. Get a piece of liner and sandwich it between the drain and the liner ring, and tighter it up with the screws. Put sandbag (clay mounds, actually) structure all around. I don't think I want to put silicone on it since it would be a bit of a mess to clean up. Ah well, better to focus on getting the pond done -- then we don't have to worry about protecting the drain in the middle of construction, exposed to the elements during winter.

- Wayne, felt really odd standing in 3 inches of water in his mud pit, spraying down his fresh concrete footers which are above mud level with the garden hose.

[Leekinneykoi]

[QUOTE=Ronin-Koi]Cool. By top concrete edge, do you mean your entire pond bottom that goes to your bottom drain? Or a concrete ring around your drain? Are you going to be able to finish before winter?

Wayne, My drain and pipe are concreted in, my bottom is clay and sides are mostly shale sandstone and clay, I am not concreting them just carpet and liner. My ground was not level where the pond is and I built a wall and backfilled 12 years ago and my heavy sandstone edge stone over the years kept settling and sliding in the old pond, I poured a solid level flat surface that the liner will cover and will morter my sandstone on top of the liner for an edge that hopefully will stay. I hope to finish, but alot of little stuff to do, Even if I can get the liner in to overwinter plants that are in tubs and dug holes all over my yard and 6 small fish I will be happy.


[QUOTE=Ronin-Koi]I was thinking maybe I could use the liner ring that came with the drain. Get a piece of liner and sandwich it between the drain and the liner ring, and tighter it up with the screws. Put sandbag (clay mounds, actually) structure all around. I don't think I want to put silicone on it since it would be a bit of a mess to clean up. Ah well, better to focus on getting the pond done -- then we don't have to worry about protecting the drain in the middle of construction, exposed to the elements during winter.

This sounds like a good plan without the silicone
This may be a dumb?? but how do you get the Quotes in them little grey boxes

[luke-gr]

This may be a dumb?? but how do you get the Quotes in them little grey boxes

Press the quote button at the bottom right corner of post you want to quote. You can delete unwanted portions...

Luke

[Sellis]

but how do you get the Quotes in them little grey boxes

When you hit the quote button you will notice something like "[*QUOTE=Leekinneykoi]" at the beginning and "[*/QUOTE]" at the end of the quote. When you edit the post you can not change these or the quote box will not show.

Ha... I had to add a "*" to the code to prevent it putting my text in a gray box.

Stan

[Leekinneykoi]

Thanks, Luke and Stan, I guess I was deleting too much and always the bottom[/QUOTE] thing.

[Gene]

Lee,

You can type the quote and unquote code yourself.

[Leekinneykoi]

Lee,

You can type the quote and unquote code yourself.

Thanks Gene

Cool. By top concrete edge, do you mean your entire pond bottom that goes to your bottom drain? Or a concrete ring around your drain?

Wayne I burrowed a digital cam, pumped some water, ripped out some forms, and took some crappy pictures to show you my mess. And I swear there is concrete on That Gene special drain.

[Ronin-Koi]

Wayne I burrowed a digital cam, pumped some water, ripped out some forms, and took some crappy pictures to show you my mess. And I swear there is concrete on That Gene special drain.

Hey Lee, Thanks for those photos! Cool. In the one photo, you have another dug out area on the lower left of the photo.. is that your filter area?

Yep, I recognize the water logged Ohio mud. Pretty much the same kind of mess I'm staring at right now. My neighbors must think I am crazy because when I'm wetting down the concrete, it looks like I am spraying water into my very messy mud pit, as if it isn't wet enough... heh...

So you hand mixed and poured your concrete ring... how long did it take you? How much concrete was that? You mentioned 4 loads, but not sure how much your load is.

I'm trying to decide if I want to get the concrete dump truck and the trailer pump guy to come back out here to pour my filter pit and the floor of my pond. Or if that is something that is manageable myself with the concrete mixer since I can split the filter pit and the pond into two separate jobs. Using the pumper, it all gets shot so fast, that after we are done pumping it, I might have less than an hour to try to screed and smooth all that surface area before it is too stiff to work. And the pond bottom will be tricky since it needs to be sculpted into the profile I want with rising radius as the floor gets further from the bottom drains.

- Wayne, will probably get the pumper since both floors will need over 5.5 yards (which is 225 80 pound bags! ), which is a lot to mix even with a portable mixer.

[Leekinneykoi]

Hey Lee, Thanks for those photos! Cool. In the one photo, you have another dug out area on the lower left of the photo.. is that your filter area?

Wayne if you are refering to the cut out {no concrete ring area} that is where the bottom drain pipe goes out and the skimmer will sit right in the gap and the pit will be directly behind there.

So you hand mixed and poured your concrete ring... how long did it take you? How much concrete was that? You mentioned 4 loads, but not sure how much your load is.

1 whole Sunday with a helper and then three evenings this week by myself.
I measured about 1.3 yards. Wheel barrel loads abour half full 20 loads total.
I used 2 one ton piles of #8 gravel about 3/4 a ton of sand and 6 and 1/2
bags (94lbs.) portland cement. That Orange blob in the pic is the broken mixer.

I'm trying to decide if I want to get the concrete dump truck and the trailer pump guy to come back out here to pour my filter pit and the floor of my pond. Or if that is something that is manageable myself with the concrete mixer since I can split the filter pit and the pond into two separate jobs. Using the pumper, it all gets shot so fast, that after we are done pumping it, I might have less than an hour to try to screed and smooth all that surface area before it is too stiff to work. And the pond bottom will be tricky since it needs to be sculpted into the profile I want with rising radius as the floor gets further from the bottom drains.

Wayne,definately get the pumper for the big job if the wallet can take it. You can ask your concrete supplier about adding an admixture and specify how long you need to work the concrete before it sets called RETARDER (not you) the driver can often put it in right before pumping and or mixing to pump it will give slow down the setting time with no ill effects.
As for your pump house if you are really needing strength and have to do it all at once, depends on how much you can do as daylight is slipping by. My pour is like a fotter on top of the ground but holding only stone and all down pressure, so when I quit for the day I sloped the edge of concrete where I stopped and made alot of Crow foot prints with the trowel, the next day I made a thick paste of portland and water and brushed it on the area and poured on top. The paste gives it a good bond. Some use foam or asphalt cold joints but all this stuff will be under my liner.