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    Thread: Bakki Lowering Nitrates?

    1. #1
      koinoober's Avatar
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      Bakki Lowering Nitrates?

      I recently installed a bakki shower with the momotaro media in them.
      I've been reading a lot about bakki showers and the momo bhm claiming to lower nitrates but my understanding is that they don't actually lower the nitrates literally, but rather gasses off the source(ammonia) that eventually leads to nitrates. Is this correct?

      Are plants the only thing that will actually "eat" nitrates?

      What about bakki showers & tds levels?

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    2. #2
      koinoober's Avatar
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      Also I have read instances where users claim they're nitrates have increased ever since installing showers...
      And even problems with surface foam with new media. Half of my media is brand new but I don't have any foam.

      BUT, there is a weird smell inside the filter housing that I've never smelled before...sort of a stove gas/gasoline type of smell. I'm not sure if this is the "off gassing" of ammonia or if it's because I added bottled bacteria(Tetra SS+).

    3. #3
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      Quote Originally Posted by koinoober View Post
      Also I have read instances where users claim they're nitrates have increased ever since installing showers...
      And even problems with surface foam with new media. Half of my media is brand new but I don't have any foam.

      BUT, there is a weird smell inside the filter housing that I've never smelled before...sort of a stove gas/gasoline type of smell. I'm not sure if this is the "off gassing" of ammonia or if it's because I added bottled bacteria(Tetra SS+).
      Haha a weird smell. I've often said this and get laughed at. I believe we are off gassing carbon. I've been one to have lower nitrates now at 10ppm

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      vipertom1970 is offline Senior Member
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      and the myth continues.

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      BWG is offline Senior Member
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      They do everything but cure the common cold. Ironic the claims can't be independently verified in a lab setting.

      Apart from the excessive hype still a good bio converter.
      Last edited by BWG; 12-11-2018 at 01:03 PM.

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      The other advantage is oxygen transfer. Does a pond with a shower maintain water nearer to maximum O2 saturation vs one without? Would water with higher O2 cause the entire pond ecosystem (all surfaces covered with bio slime) to act as better bio converter? Maybe this is true benefit on ponds that need more aeration?

      Has anyone with O2 meters checked water before and after a shower?

    7. #7
      kimini is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      They do everything but cure the common cold. Ironic the claims can't be independently verified in a lab setting.

      Apart from the excessive hype still a good bio converter.
      Agreed. To the OP, search for "shower nitrate"; there's endless claims and speculation, but no one's backed it up. I recently set up a shower to test out the claims for myself, but I've already been warned that because it's low profile, if it fails, I can't blame the fact that it's a shower, hah.

      Because I don't do enough water changes, nitrate has always been on the high side. Now that the shower's online, it'll be interesting to see if the nitrate magically drops. Thing is, with the changing of the seasons, it's cooler, we stopped feeding the fish, and it's been raining. Guess what, nitrate levels have been dropping, so that proves that the shower reduces nitrates...
      Last edited by kimini; 12-11-2018 at 02:24 PM.

    8. #8
      Zac Penn is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      Agreed. To the OP, search for "shower nitrate"; there's endless claims and speculation, but no one's backed it up. I recently set up a shower to test out the claims for myself, but I've already been warned that because it's low profile, if it fails, I can't blame the fact that it's a shower, hah.

      Because I don't do enough water changes, nitrate has always been on the high side. Now that the shower's online, it'll be interesting to see if the nitrate magically drops. Thing is, with the changing of the seasons, it's cooler, we stopped feeding the fish, and it's been raining. Guess what, nitrate levels have been dropping, so that proves that the shower reduces nitrates...
      MAGIC!!!!!!!! Or is it the Rio Media? The amount of Far Infrared Radiation is 500% greater than BHM LOL Reduced food has nothing to do with your reduction of nitrates. Even low profile showers have the magic touch.
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    9. #9
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zac Penn View Post
      MAGIC!!!!!!!! Or is it the Rio Media? The amount of Far Infrared Radiation is 500% greater than BHM LOL Reduced food has nothing to do with your reduction of nitrates. Even low profile showers have the magic touch.
      Hmm reduced feeding will lead to lower nitrates imo. The newly cycled rio media and low profile shower have provided what really?

    10. #10
      DragonFireSG is offline Senior Member
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      The media type probably matters quite a bit, far infrared aside

      Anoxic bacteria living in the poorly oxygenated core of porous iron-bearing media - lavarock for example - may be responsible for turning nitrates and ammonia directly into N2.

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    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      Agreed. To the OP, search for "shower nitrate"; there's endless claims and speculation, but no one's backed it up. I recently set up a shower to test out the claims for myself, but I've already been warned that because it's low profile, if it fails, I can't blame the fact that it's a shower, hah.

      Because I don't do enough water changes, nitrate has always been on the high side. Now that the shower's online, it'll be interesting to see if the nitrate magically drops. Thing is, with the changing of the seasons, it's cooler, we stopped feeding the fish, and it's been raining. Guess what, nitrate levels have been dropping, so that proves that the shower reduces nitrates...
      Hi kimini, very nice to see you here.
      When you say "low profile" compared to? I'm picturing the original Bakki Showers with 4 or 5 sections and several inches of space between. What kind of media do you have? I had a DIY Plastic model of 3 sections stacked one atop the other with no space, and it was definitely not momotaro media, although it was supposed to be "the next best thing". Right. The media was disintegrating and I was constantly scooping bits of it off the pond bottom with a net and picking it out of my leaf basket. Bottom line I dismantled it long before I got any definitive results regarding nitrates.

      Zac - Rio Media?
      Find Something You Would Die For And Live for It.



    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by DragonFireSG View Post
      The media type probably matters quite a bit, far infrared aside

      Anoxic bacteria living in the poorly oxygenated core of porous iron-bearing media - lavarock for example - may be responsible for turning nitrates and ammonia directly into N2.
      I had lava rock for 28 years. Nitrates went up when I feed heavily and down in winter. Lava rock continues to get a bum rap as usual. imo

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      Quote Originally Posted by koinoober View Post
      Also I have read instances where users claim they're nitrates have increased ever since installing showers...
      And even problems with surface foam with new media. Half of my media is brand new but I don't have any foam.
      BUT, there is a weird smell inside the filter housing that I've never smelled before...sort of a stove gas/gasoline type of smell. I'm not sure if this is the "off gassing" of ammonia or if it's because I added bottled bacteria(Tetra SS+).
      re:Weird smell - Have you tried isolating a small bit of of the bacteria on some clean media for a day or two apart from the housing and the rest? It would be interesting to also isolate a second piece with the bacteria treated on media that has been exposed to ammonia/waste, but now separate from the system.
      At least you'd have a better indication of whether the smell is the bacteria itself (over time/exposed to air), the bacteria reacting to the waste/ammonia, or possibly as kevin mentioned - you're off gassing carbon.
      hehe I love doing experiments.



      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      I had lava rock for 28 years. Nitrates went up when I feed heavily and down in winter. Lava rock continues to get a bum rap as usual. imo
      kdh, I'm curious, have you ever tested your pond for iron? I have no idea how much might be in lava rock, if it's pure or an alloy, etc. nor if there is any danger of it being released when immersed in pond water over a prolonged period of time, or exposed to ammonia and other pond chemicals. I just got to wondering about this now because I'm currently making a list of heavy metals to test for in my well water that are toxic to Koi (iron is one of them!) so the mention of iron in the lava rock got me thinking.

      I didn't know that lava rock was getting a bum rap. I thought a lot of folk were still using it in their trickle tower filters, etc.
      Find Something You Would Die For And Live for It.



    14. #14
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      Quote Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
      re:Weird smell - Have you tried isolating a small bit of of the bacteria on some clean media for a day or two apart from the housing and the rest? It would be interesting to also isolate a second piece with the bacteria treated on media that has been exposed to ammonia/waste, but now separate from the system.
      At least you'd have a better indication of whether the smell is the bacteria itself (over time/exposed to air), the bacteria reacting to the waste/ammonia, or possibly as kevin mentioned - you're off gassing carbon.
      hehe I love doing experiments.





      kdh, I'm curious, have you ever tested your pond for iron? I have no idea how much might be in lava rock, if it's pure or an alloy, etc. nor if there is any danger of it being released when immersed in pond water over a prolonged period of time, or exposed to ammonia and other pond chemicals. I just got to wondering about this now because I'm currently making a list of heavy metals to test for in my well water that are toxic to Koi (iron is one of them!) so the mention of iron in the lava rock got me thinking.

      I didn't know that lava rock was getting a bum rap. I thought a lot of folk were still using it in their trickle tower filters, etc.
      Most use feather rock. For me it is mainly just cause it is lighter and each of my totes weighs 80 pounds or so with feather rock. I'm using ceramic media under the feather rock. I've been told the feather rock will help break down the proteins and also off gas carbon possibly. I good water changes and also have and with rdf and a shower the most I've seen is 10ppm. This was while feeding 15 koi in 1200 gallons 6 times a day. So I am somewhat a believer in my setup.

    15. #15
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      We are basically breaking apart these carbon and protein structures. I see my water bounce off my media mainly after feeding. To me this is breaking apart stuff and then the ceramic media inside provides a place to further reduce my nitrates
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      Quote Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
      Hi kimini, very nice to see you here.
      When you say "low profile" compared to? I'm picturing the original Bakki Showers with 4 or 5 sections and several inches of space between. What kind of media do you have? I had a DIY Plastic model of 3 sections stacked one atop the other with no space, and it was definitely not momotaro media, although it was supposed to be "the next best thing". Right. The media was disintegrating and I was constantly scooping bits of it off the pond bottom with a net and picking it out of my leaf basket. Bottom line I dismantled it long before I got any definitive results regarding nitrates.

      Zac - Rio Media?
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...-Shower-Filter

    17. #17
      ricshaw is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
      re:Weird smell - Have you tried isolating a small bit of of the bacteria on some clean media for a day or two apart from the housing and the rest? It would be interesting to also isolate a second piece with the bacteria treated on media that has been exposed to ammonia/waste, but now separate from the system.
      At least you'd have a better indication of whether the smell is the bacteria itself (over time/exposed to air), the bacteria reacting to the waste/ammonia, or possibly as kevin mentioned - you're off gassing carbon.
      hehe I love doing experiments.
      The weird smell from a "few" showers some have told me about is a sulfur smell, which is an indication of anaerobic denitrification, which could explain the lowering of NitrAtes.


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      Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
      The weird smell from a "few" showers some have told me about is a sulfur smell, which is an indication of anaerobic denitrification, which could explain the lowering of NitrAtes.
      So the Smell I smell, my brother smells and my other koi buddy smells coming from my shower is maybe really proving this anaerobic denitrification. I got laughed at when I said my rio media was cycled and had that same smell as the Chinese media. Of course some still believe in there myths.

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      No I have never tested for iron. But two of the koi I had were in the system for 28 years and a couple more in there 20's. Never had a problem unless I created it. My filtering set up with lava was very good and it looked like the day I put it in after 28 years. And as with (any media) it has to be taken care of properly. I imagine there are better media products out there but I have never used them. Mine worked just fine. And would wager that the majority of koi ponds in the United States are lave rock. Some people that have seen my system were surprised on just how nice the water and koi looked using lava rock. Because they kept hearing negative things about using it. A few on KP think it is a bad product. But used properly it works just fine. As my koi lived for a long time with the set up. Skin and colors stayed very nice. I no longer have a pond or koi.

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      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      No I have never tested for iron. But two of the koi I had were in the system for 28 years and a couple more in there 20's. Never had a problem unless I created it. My filtering set up with lava was very good and it looked like the day I put it in after 28 years. And as with (any media) it has to be taken care of properly. I imagine there are better media products out there but I have never used them. Mine worked just fine. And would wager that the majority of koi ponds in the United States are lave rock. Some people that have seen my system were surprised on just how nice the water and koi looked using lava rock. Because they kept hearing negative things about using it. A few on KP think it is a bad product. But used properly it works just fine. As my koi lived for a long time with the set up. Skin and colors stayed very nice. I no longer have a pond or koi.
      One member used to say lava rock would clog. I didnt agree with many of his posts and dont see why it would clog. The downside is it is very heavy

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