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  • Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
    Results 61 to 77 of 77

    Thread: Ro filter and beni improvement etc.

    1. #61
      AkwaKoi is online now Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by abuchi123 View Post
      Connect two RO membrane units in series to increase efficiency. You can almost double the output.
      If I may, I'd like to say that reverse osmosis (RO) doesn't work that way. My two cents: you have to have enough head pressure to force the pure water out of the tap water (the REVERSE process in reverse osmosis). You will shorten the lives of both membranes if you inserting another membrane in series with the one OCkoiFan currently has. Both membranes will definitely get clogged (membrane fouling) mostly due to the water hardness scaling. More importantly, they will not double your output.

    2. #62
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      Quote Originally Posted by abuchi123 View Post
      RO Membrane, Membrane Solutions Reverse Osmosis 150GPD-2012 Membrane and 1812/2012 RO Membrane Housing DIY Kit,1/4 Quick Connector,Check valve,Wrench Whole Set https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CJM64BN..._IhRoCbWKT82WX

      With SoCal water rate, you will get your money back.

      I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Just wiki reverse osmosis, read and you will see why. And with SoCal water rate, you will waste more $$ from your pocket. Membrane Solutions (the company that makes the membrane you recommended) test this membrane at 15% recovery rate, i.e. wasting 8.5 gallons for every 1.5 gallons of pure water produced! (check section "testing condition" on this page https://www.membrane-solutions.com/r...ro-element.htm)

    3. #63
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      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      Right now Iím pretty happy with the 150gpd unit
      I just drained 150gallons out this evening and should expect it to go back to regular level
      Within 15-24 hours slowly but surely
      Yes for a bigger tank or pond then the speed should be faster like 300gpd
      I ainít doing this for main pond no no
      It's funny . You may not know but our customers use the MaSuRO (Generation II) for their main ponds, and save water at the same time. Say, for a 10,000 gallons pond, the system processes pond water directly; it "changes" 5,000 gallons of dirty pond water weekly, generates 4500 gallons of ultra clean water to put back to the pond, and rejects 500 gallons super concentrated brine waste. So, the owner needs to add only 500 gallons of fresh tap water to the pond (note that a 10% water change is 1000 gallons for this pond) while the koi enjoys a 50% water change weekly, super water savings! That's the SuRO in its name MaSuRO (Sustainable RO)

    4. #64
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      Connecting RO in series was not my original idea. It has been done by koi hobbyists and reefers for a long time. Typical RO filter wastes 4 to 5 gal of water to produce 1 gal of near pure water. That sounds bad but it also means the "dirty" water is not that dirty at all. Assuming the TDS coming in is 200ppm, the waste water would be no worse than 250ppm which is still well within specs. The warnings about clogged and ruined RO membranes are exaggerations that just doesn't happen in practice.

      Regarding beni improving greatly in soft water within 2 weeks, I think I will try to duplicate that so I can claim the GC prize in Gardena. I have many more weeks to go.
      Last edited by abuchi123; 4 Days Ago at 04:22 AM.

    5. #65
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      Quote Originally Posted by abuchi123 View Post
      Connecting RO in series was not my original idea. It has been done by koi hobbyists and reefers for a long time. Typical RO filter wastes 4 to 5 gal of water to produce 1 gal of near pure water. That sounds bad but it also means the "dirty" water is not that dirty at all. Assuming the TDS coming in is 200ppm, the waste water would be no worse than 250ppm which is still well within specs. The warnings about clogged and ruined RO membranes are exaggerations that just doesn't happen in practice.

      Regarding beni improving greatly in soft water within 2 weeks, I think I will try to duplicate that so I can claim the GC prize in Gardena. I have many more weeks to go.
      1. Thank you: your participation gives me a chance to explain things in clearer details.
      2. The issue is not how dirty the reject water is, but what to do with this water since OCkoiFan fills his pond each time with 150 gallons of RO water and waste 850 gallons of dirty water (according to the membrane manufacturer you recommended).
      3. Arranging membranes in series is routinely done at desalination plants and many other places, but doing it with a head pressure of 60psi (standard household tap water pressure) and without a high pressure pump surely invites clogging. That's our observation when researching with NASA on purifying water for the International Space Station. Of course, you are entitled to your own opinion about that. I recall a famous quote: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
      4. Beni: again, you are entitled to your own chromatic aberration.
      Last edited by AkwaKoi; 4 Days Ago at 05:48 AM.

    6. #66
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      Quote Originally Posted by AkwaKoi View Post
      It's funny . You may not know but our customers use the MaSuRO (Generation II) for their main ponds, and save water at the same time. Say, for a 10,000 gallons pond, the system processes pond water directly; it "changes" 5,000 gallons of dirty pond water weekly, generates 4500 gallons of ultra clean water to put back to the pond, and rejects 500 gallons super concentrated brine waste. So, the owner needs to add only 500 gallons of fresh tap water to the pond (note that a 10% water change is 1000 gallons for this pond) while the koi enjoys a 50% water change weekly, super water savings! That's the SuRO in its name MaSuRO (Sustainable RO)
      What about nitrate level when trying to recycle the pond water?
      Sound like a submarine conversing salt water to fresh here
      M.Nguyen


    7. #67
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      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      What about nitrate level when trying to recycle the pond water?
      Sound like a submarine conversing salt water to fresh here
      As always my nitrates are 5ppm or less.

    8. #68
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      Okay Kevin/Tuyen time to study RO and balance
      So my TDS tested this morning 275
      So I wonder what happens to my KH level
      I also teste KH and 70ppm PH 6.8
      So I wonder if I keep lowering my tds then KH level would be so low thus there could be chance for PH crash
      Add baking soda ? Then doesnít that bring tds up again
      Iím confuse guys ....
      M.Nguyen


    9. #69
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      Quote Originally Posted by AkwaKoi View Post
      1. Thank you: your participation gives me a chance to explain things in clearer details.
      2. The issue is not how dirty the reject water is, but what to do with this water since OCkoiFan fills his pond each time with 150 gallons of RO water and waste 850 gallons of dirty water (according to the membrane manufacturer you recommended).
      3. Arranging membranes in series is routinely done at desalination plants and many other places, but doing it with a head pressure of 60psi (standard household tap water pressure) and without a high pressure pump surely invites clogging. That's our observation when researching with NASA on purifying water for the International Space Station. Of course, you are entitled to your own opinion about that. I recall a famous quote: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
      4. Beni: again, you are entitled to your own chromatic aberration.
      I wish you great success with the product development. Filtering pond water to output low TDS water is no easy feat.

    10. #70
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      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      Okay Kevin/Tuyen time to study RO and balance
      So my TDS tested this morning 275
      So I wonder what happens to my KH level
      I also teste KH and 70ppm PH 6.8
      So I wonder if I keep lowering my tds then KH level would be so low thus there could be chance for PH crash
      Add baking soda ? Then doesnít that bring tds up again
      Iím confuse guys ....
      Ok. So what is the ph of your tap water? Once I got down very low TDs at 200 my kh has been 3 drops api. Ph has been stable day and night 7.6 or maybe 7.8. Tuyen can further explain it but my ph has been stable. Also check the gh. Oh btw my tap water is 7.6 or has been, so pond ph is same as my source water now.

      Check ph day and night. You may even see a fish flash here and there when you get to 200 TDs. Observe the fish really well. Flashing seems just a change in the water. Mine have been very active though but a couple did flash for a day and no biggie.
      Last edited by kevin32; 2 Days Ago at 02:35 PM.

    11. #71
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      Iím just concerning my bio will use up all KH and cause PH crash so I need to add baking soda to regulate the KH level
      After I talk to doman71 my water expert friend I think I got the hang of it
      Thanks Kev
      Last edited by OCkoiFan; 2 Days Ago at 03:35 PM.
      M.Nguyen


    12. #72
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      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      Okay Kevin/Tuyen time to study RO and balance
      So my TDS tested this morning 275
      So I wonder what happens to my KH level
      I also teste KH and 70ppm PH 6.8
      So I wonder if I keep lowering my tds then KH level would be so low thus there could be chance for PH crash
      Add baking soda ? Then doesn’t that bring tds up again
      I’m confuse guys ....
      We have our own way to prevent pH crash, but it cannot apply to your current equipment arrangement. You can also prevent the crash by dipping a bag of oyster shells (from an animal feed store, not your barbecue grill ). Just to make sure, you can measure your tap water pH as Kevin suggested. Your pond pH is always affected by the source water pH.

      I suspect that your koi excrements have pulled down the pH: big fish, small tank with no biological filtering action. Note that oyster shells won't help much if it's due to this "overstocking" problem. At the very least, you can measure the pH of your tap and the NH3/NO2-/NO3- to verify the cause.

    13. #73
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      Just saw your post. Glad you got an expert by your side.

    14. #74
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      Quote Originally Posted by AkwaKoi View Post
      Just saw your post. Glad you got an expert by your side.
      M.Nguyen


    15. #75
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      Quote Originally Posted by abuchi123 View Post
      I wish you great success with the product development. Filtering pond water to output low TDS water is no easy feat.
      Thank you. You're right, purifying pond water is not easy at all, particularly at our level of water efficiency (producing 9 gallons of RO water, wasting 1 gallon of dirty water).

      It took us 2 years of research and overcame lots of issues to perfect the technology, even with our solid background in water purification (one of our RO systems is currently installed in a semiconductor wafer equipment fab for its DI water generation). Now, we are ready for primetime

    16. #76
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      Yep. We will be at the del mar show and can show our system. It is no easy task to do this. I've used it all in combination. Rdf to shower and now the reverse osmosis. I also have 2 cubic feet of lithaqua thst should keep my kh up as well. My biological filtration seems just fine and fish are doing great. My mom has been checking them daily and they are begging her for food. She knows they dont need it though

    17. #77
      AkwaKoi is online now Junior Member
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      *** WHAT IS THE WATER HARDNESS (GH) OF YOUR POND? ***

      Median Tap Water Hardness in Japan

      (data from the internet, referencing: Ayuho Suzuki, Tomoko Watanabe: The mineral content of tap water in Japan. Abstract book, 12th Asian Congress of Nutrition. p.198(2015), and Japan Water Works Association: 2013 Tapwater Statistics Water Quality Edition)

      Throughout Japan (from 5835 facilities): 44ppm
      Hokkaido (from 198 facilities): 29ppm
      Tohoku (from 685 facilities): 30ppm
      Kanto (1056 facilities): 67ppm
      Chubu (1554 facilities): 38ppm
      Kinki (756 facilities): 42ppm
      Chugoku (356 facilities): 35ppm
      Shikoku (359 facilities): 48ppm
      Kyushu (807 facilities): 47ppm
      Okinawa (55 facilities): 50ppm
      Tap water drawn from dam/lake water (208 facilities): 31ppm
      Tap water drawn from surface water (929 facilities): 31ppm
      Tap water drawn from ground water (2814 facilities): 51ppm
      Tap water drawn from received(?) or spring water (1176 facilities): 35ppm

      1 drop of GH = 17.5ppm. Similarly, 1 drop of KH = 17.5ppm.

      Japanese mud ponds contain similar water hardness to the tap in the regions outlined above. Koi have been raised and genetically selected to shine in these water conditions. What is the water hardness of your pond?
      Last edited by AkwaKoi; 1 Day Ago at 11:28 PM.

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