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    Thread: Anyone Familiar with AquaMeds TERMINATE?

    1. #1
      DarkStar is offline Supporting Member
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      Anyone Familiar with AquaMeds TERMINATE?

      After my major pond clean-out about two months ago/ new filtration cycling / influx of all new (cold) water, my fish are predictably stressing and out comes some symptoms of parasites / flashing. No scope so I don't know what they are. No new fish were added. The last time I had to treat for any flashing / suspected parasites was back in 2015, and I used a combo of Prazi and AquaMeds Terminate (like Proform-C). It worked fine. Last year and early this year the pond was treated with Fluke-M for the purpose of killing snails ... any parasites that died were a bonus.

      I'm asking about Terminate now because back in 2015 I bought 2 bottles. One that I opened and used, the other I stored unopened. Well, I need it now and I'm wondering if it's still good?

      Here's the product link on the Mfgr. site: http://www.aquameds.com/medications/terminate/
      and in the instructions ( http://www.aquameds.com/terminate-instructions/ ) it says "Do Not use TERMINATE if it has been frozen or stored below 50 degrees.
      Do Not use TERMINATE if it has a cloudy or white color." It was stored in my finished basement - no danger of freezing.

      I opened it tonight. It's dark midnight blue. Not cloudy, not white, not fuzzy.

      As you know most of these malachite green & formalin treatment products cannot be shipped in cold / Winter weather and I'm up North, so any suggestions or comments? Does anyone know the shelf-life on Proform-C for comparison?


      I did a search here on Koiphen and found a thread about Terminate in 2016 that was a little disconcerting: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...6294-Terminate
      but from what I can see it is currently being sold on several sites so they are in fact selling it and that was a rumor? speculation? Nothing to do with the bottle I purchased the year before?

      Opinions?
      Thank you.
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    2. #2
      Rob Forbis is offline Senior Member
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      DS the advice generally is not to do a treatment unless you know what you are treating. Your researched opinion is likely as good as any youll get here.

      Fish flash the question is how many, how often and with what vigor? And are you seeing any other signs like redness?

      I live in Florida so our situations are different but I find that my fish will flash when the temperature changes, a bit more as the water warms. Any water temperature shifts?

    3. #3
      ademink's Avatar
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      I would call the company. They are usually extremely helpful and forthcoming with information.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    4. #4
      DarkStar is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rob Forbis View Post
      DS the advice generally is not to do a treatment unless you know what you are treating. Your researched opinion is likely as good as any youll get here.

      Fish flash the question is how many, how often and with what vigor? And are you seeing any other signs like redness?

      I live in Florida so our situations are different but I find that my fish will flash when the temperature changes, a bit more as the water warms. Any water temperature shifts?
      Thanks very much for your response Rob. I've been here long enough to know better than to dash off a post without giving full details. I must have Brain Freeze from being out in the cold too long.

      Here goes: It's an Indoor Pond. Water Temp 70*
      The symptoms have been going on for more than three weeks now. Started with one fish laying at the bottom, now there are 3, sometimes 4. Two with clamped fins. One with "stress-red" in fins. They will come up for food but shortly go back down. Several flashing intermittently.

      My new Filter was cycling, I did frequent water exchanges, I tested daily for Ammonia, Nitrite, etc. 0 Ammonia, Nitrites were coming down (last week in the 0.25 - 0.50 range) but I had 0.3% Salt in there for the last three weeks so low Nitrite was not a big concern. KH is 12 d = 214.8

      The Nitrites finally came down to 0. After another Backwash and several more water exchanges the salt is out.

      Now I need to treat the fish. Which brings me back to my question about Terminate, Proform-C, shelf-life, cold shipping, options, etc.
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    5. #5
      ademink's Avatar
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      If you don't see white precipitate then it should be fine. I've had no problems with the product in general. If you're concerned about the post you referenced and the cease production, I would call and ask them. 888-864-6919
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    6. #6
      DarkStar is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by ademink View Post
      I would call the company. They are usually extremely helpful and forthcoming with information.
      Thanks ademink. I will check with them (probably closed now until Monday). I should have thought of that myself; up all night with a bad cold and fuzzy-headed.

      Meanwhile I'd hoped perhaps someone might know of an alternate treatment that didn't have the cold restrictions. It was worth a shot.
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    7. #7
      ademink's Avatar
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      They should still be open. They are in California.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    8. #8
      DarkStar is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by ademink View Post
      If you don't see white precipitate then it should be fine. I've had no problems with the product in general. If you're concerned about the post you referenced and the cease production, I would call and ask them. 888-864-6919
      Thank you, you're so kind! I just phone and got their answering machine. Left a message explaining what I need to know. Hopefully he'll call back.


      No white stuff of any kind. No cloudiness. No foam. Just deep midnight blue.

      I had purchased two bottles in 7/2015, one I used (with success in treated fish) the other was stored. Overall I felt it was just as good as Proform-C which I've also used in the past. My only concern now was that it had been sitting in storage for a few years. Some people say the shelf-life of Proform-C is 4 years, but according to the product pdf it says:
      "STABILITY
      ProForm-C is stable for an indefinite period if kept in its original
      container and stored away from heat and cold. When not in use store
      tightly closed, at room temperature (above 60F and below 100F),
      and out of direct sunlight. Do not return unused portions to the original
      container."

      If the formula for both products are the same, would it be safe to assume the stability would be similar?
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    9. #9
      DarkStar is offline Supporting Member
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      Just tried to call again. Still got the answering machine.
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    10. #10
      kevin32's Avatar
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      I know of a koi store that used malachite green and it had some white foam etc.. they thought it would be fine but it did kill some fish. They thought as long as it was blue and intact it should be fine but I'm not 100% it is ok

    11. #11
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      Seems you are pushing the expiration date close. I can send you some proform c for free if you need it
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    12. #12
      ademink's Avatar
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      That's my understanding as well. If the color is good and there is no white, it should be fine. You may want to Pm RickF or RichToyBox - they are far more chemistry gurus than me
      Andrea
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    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Seems you are pushing the expiration date close. I can send you some proform c for free if you need it
      Kevin, that's so very thoughtful. I'm really touched. Thank you so much! It's not that I can't afford to buy more. The only reason I'm considering using the one I have rather than buying new stuff is having it shipped here where the temperatures are so cold just now. Both Proform-C and Terminate caution that the product should not be stored below 60* F. I have to question what would happen to the integrity of the product if it's in a truck outside where Northern daytime temperature is 35*F and night time temperature is 20*F. Even if I had it shipped overnight, that's a risk. Do you think I'm rightly concerned?

      I tried phoning Mark @ AquaMeds again today but got the answering machine once more.
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    14. #14
      kevin32's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
      Kevin, that's so very thoughtful. I'm really touched. Thank you so much! It's not that I can't afford to buy more. The only reason I'm considering using the one I have rather than buying new stuff is having it shipped here where the temperatures are so cold just now. Both Proform-C and Terminate caution that the product should not be stored below 60* F. I have to question what would happen to the integrity of the product if it's in a truck outside where Northern daytime temperature is 35*F and night time temperature is 20*F. Even if I had it shipped overnight, that's a risk. Do you think I'm rightly concerned?

      I tried phoning Mark @ AquaMeds again today but got the answering machine once more.
      Hmm. Didn't think about the cold temps while being transported. I ordered a small bottle of proform and they sent me a a gallon. I have enough to use for aging time so that is why I offered some.

      I would think the storage temp would be more long term. In the case of the koi store they had theres in hot temps outside and seems to breakdown something in it and makes it toxic.

    15. #15
      DarkStar is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Hmm. Didn't think about the cold temps while being transported. I ordered a small bottle of proform and they sent me a a gallon. I have enough to use for aging time so that is why I offered some.

      I would think the storage temp would be more long term. In the case of the koi store they had theres in hot temps outside and seems to breakdown something in it and makes it toxic.
      Oh, right. We wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong impression and think you're a nice guy offering to do it out of the goodness of your heart.
      Thanks again, Kevin. I still think it was very nice of you.



      Moving on.....
      I received a definitive email from Mark at AquaMeds today that should be helpful to anyone who uses this product: (Keep in mind I purchased it on 7/2015. I asked if it was still good to use (no cloudiness, no white specks, no fuzziness; stored above 50*F). I also asked if it was likely to be as potent at treating parasites after all this time.

      "I apologize for my tardy reply. The Terminate should be fine and just as potent as it was on the day it was made. As long as it was kept above 50F and you do not see any cloudy or cotton ball looking stuff in they feel safe and use it. I apologize again for my tardy reply and if you have any other questions or concerns please let me know.
      --

      Sincerely,

      Mark

      Mark Bodycott
      mark@aquameds.com
      http://www.aquameds.com/
      Toll Free: 888.864.6919
      Fax: 856-881-7089
      463 Fish Pond Road
      Glassboro, NJ 08028"
      I noticed the NJ address. I don't know if this is a main office and they have a manufacturing plant in CA, or if things have changed, but something to keep in mind if anyone is trying to contact them in the future. Likely it would be best to go by Eastern Standard Time.

      I was really pleased to have received a response from him. I have started boycotting products from manufacturers who don't respond to product inquiries. Seriously.
      Last edited by DarkStar; 4 Days Ago at 06:03 PM.
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