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  • Results 1 to 19 of 19

    Thread: small koi in trouble

    1. #1
      jasonnstephjung is offline Member
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      small koi in trouble

      hello, I just came home and notice my sansai kujaku is having troubles with breathing and is barely moving. i have 19 koi in a 1200 gallon set up right now due to winter. i have a easy pod and a 55 gallon filled with k1 (cycled) on one pump, and another 55 drum filled with mechanical media going into a 65 gallon drum with more k1 with another pump. both pumps are external. my ammonia is 0 nitrite is 0 and nitrate a 20. currently doing a 20 percent water change every night. the temperature is about 70 degrees.
      the kujaku is struggling to breath and swim. no other koi are showing any signs like this. he is also the smallest koi about 1/4 of the others even though we got them at the same time. right now he is staying behind the inlet to avoid the current. he seems very weak i can pick him up right out of the water without the use of a net. sometimes he has been doing a weird twitch to burst his head out of the water. another koi can also bump him and he just goes on he side, then corrects himself. i have noticed heavy breathing in the past and have done multiple scrapes and only noticed one fluke. we also run on well water the kh and gh are very high and the ph is at 8.2. we also currently have low levels of salt in there .07 ppm. does anyone have any idea on what is going on and how can i fix this?

    2. #2
      jasonnstephjung is offline Member
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      he just rolled over so i moved him in a figure eight to resuscitate him. it seems like he is either to weak or just cannot open his gill plates. every once in a while i hold him by the air stone to keep the water flowing through his gills. hopefully this helps with a more accurate diagnosis.

    3. #3
      ademink's Avatar
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      When you saw flukes previously, did you treat? Presence of flukes coupled with difficulty breathing, breaching and gill plates not working could certainly point toward gill flukes.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    4. #4
      jasonnstephjung is offline Member
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      yes we did treat with prazi. it seems like they have been battling flukes for a while however.

    5. #5
      ademink's Avatar
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      I personally have changed to using flubendazole because I've found prazi less effective w/ my koi. When you treated with prazi...did you do a second dose 5-7 days later?

      Often the directions don't indicate a need for a repeat dose but it definitely is necessary to catch the juveniles that hatch.

      Will you please share your water parameters for:
      Ammonia
      Nitrite
      pH
      KH
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    6. #6
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      yea we did actually 3 rounds just to make sure we got them.
      ammonia 0
      nitirite 0
      ph 8.2
      kh 200 to 400 ppm
      i did too notice that prazi wasn't very effective.

    7. #7
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      i also opened his gill plate a bit to take a peek and noticed it was a little bit more red than usual.

    8. #8
      ademink's Avatar
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      Water parameters look great. As weak as the fish sounds, it’s really your discretion. You could scrape and scope again, trying to preserve the koi from additional stress as much as possible or you could just shot gun treat for flukes again if you have been struggling with it. I would dose at 1.5x the first round. You could also scraped and scope one of the healthier fish to see if you can find Flukes rather than stress the weak one.

      What is your water temp?
      Andrea
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    9. #9
      jasonnstephjung is offline Member
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      72 degrees. we have him in a quarantine 100 gallon rubbermade tote because it seems like one of the larger koi was trying to push him up out of the water and be fairly aggressive with him. we have two air stones going no filtration however, right now. he is small that hes not really affecting the parameters.... can i still do the prazi treament in this? i added a dose to the main pond. we also dissolve the prazi in isopropyl alcohol because that is what a veterinarian suggested. do you recommend this or no?

    10. #10
      ademink's Avatar
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      The bigger koi was likely trying to assist rather than harm him. I've had some on the way out the door and I've seen the koi try to "rouse" them...it's really fascinating.

      At 72 degrees, I would dose again at 7 days.

      Yes, you can treat in QT for sure. And yes, you can use isopropyl alcohol or (my choice) cheap vodka. I use one of those manual shake mixer containers w/ the wire ball in it, create a slurry w/ the vodka and prazi and then add pond water and shake the holy hades out of it. lol
      Andrea
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    11. #11
      jasonnstephjung is offline Member
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      that exactly what we do. should i add maybe .5 grams at a time to get him acclimated to it?

    12. #12
      ademink's Avatar
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      No, you can add it all at once. Prazi is not a harsh chemical and does not require acclimation. Just go for it!
      Andrea
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    13. #13
      jasonnstephjung is offline Member
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      thank you sooooo much for all the advice!

    14. #14
      ademink's Avatar
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      Absolutely! I hope he pulls through! Keep your aeration on max and an ammonia binder!
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    15. #15
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      hmmmm we use prime. kind of concern that it will have an effect on the prazi and i am pretty sure it also drops the oxygen levels in the water. should i be concerned about this?

    16. #16
      ademink's Avatar
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      No. It has no affect on the prazi - only UV will. It will give you a false positive for ammonia on an API test kit, however...just so you are aware.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    17. #17
      ademink's Avatar
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      Also wanted to add that Prime (and the powdered version, Safe) both also block the harm that can be done by nitrites when you are in that portion of the nitrogen cycle. They are excellent products. I use an Ammonia Alert disk by Seachem to monitor ammonia. It's an inexpensive plastic disk that hangs in the water and shows you if there is harmful ammonia in the water (NH3 vs NH4).
      Andrea
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    18. #18
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      thank you once again. added both prazi and prime. i will definitely be checking out the ammonia alert disk.

    19. #19
      ademink's Avatar
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      Checking in to see how your patient is doing today.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



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