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  • Results 1 to 16 of 16

    Thread: SU or Bekko?

    1. #1
      nishikigoi21's Avatar
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      SU or Bekko?

      Is this a Shiro Utsuri or a Shiro Bekko?

      Blue eyelids, no sumi on pecs or face but for some reason my instinct is telling me it's a SU...
      I like the subtle kage sumi but I'm afraid it could be a female(ake-nisai yet no milt)

      Breeder is Marusei and the original price was $300, now $75.
      I don't have much interest in Bekkos, but for the price/looks I could get it just for learning purposes.
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      Last edited by nishikigoi21; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:11 AM.

    2. #2
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      I will go Bekko.

      A snow white Bekko with a bunch of paving stones down it's back are few and far between.

      Why are you sorry it is a female?

      Garfield
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    3. #3
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      Pattern on the fish in that last pic is striking !

    4. #4
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      I think all four pictures are the same fish and the last two pictures are photo shopped.

    5. #5
      KOITOTHEWORLD is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by stevek View Post
      Pattern on the fish in that last pic is striking !
      Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by nishikigoi21 View Post
      Is this a Shiro Utsuri or a Shiro Bekko?

      Blue eyelids, no sumi on pecs or face but for some reason my instinct is telling me it's a SU...
      I like the subtle kage sumi but I'm afraid it could be a female(ake-nisai yet no milt)

      Breeder is Marusei and the original price was $300, now $75.
      I don't have much interest in Bekkos, but for the price/looks I could get it just for learning purposes.
      This is a Shiro Utsuri. The Sumi is NOT Kage Sumi but is just Sumi that has not fully emerged yet. Kage Sumi is a specific type of Sumi that does not emerge at all and this Sumi is already coming to the surface.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by FRK View Post
      I think all four pictures are the same fish and the last two pictures are photo shopped.
      yep

    8. #8
      rainblood's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      This is a Shiro Utsuri. The Sumi is NOT Kage Sumi but is just Sumi that has not fully emerged yet. Kage Sumi is a specific type of Sumi that does not emerge at all and this Sumi is already coming to the surface.
      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      yep
      yep
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by FRK View Post
      I think all four pictures are the same fish and the last two pictures are photo shopped.
      Way to fake lol

    10. #10
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      There's only one fish that I posted here and the last 2 photos were just examples that I drew. The "Bekko" on the left is if all of the visible underlying sumi came to the surface(not sure if the forehead smudge is sumi or skull/brain) and the "Shiro Utsuri" is just my dream design...lol

      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      This is a Shiro Utsuri. The Sumi is NOT Kage Sumi but is just Sumi that has not fully emerged yet. Kage Sumi is a specific type of Sumi that does not emerge at all and this Sumi is already coming to the surface.
      Interesting that my instinct matches your answer but could you elaborate on why you say it's a Shiro Utsuri? I honestly still don't know why I myself thinks it's a SU...

      And I like how you say kage sumi will never emerge. Do you have any photos of true kage sumi on a SU or Showa?
      How long do you think the sumi on this fish will stay like this in hard water? Are we talking months or years?
      Last edited by nishikigoi21; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:15 PM.

    11. #11
      audioenvy is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      Kage Sumi is a specific type of Sumi that does not emerge at all.
      Along those lines (but opposite), what do you call sumi that can be barely seen under the surface but *might* emerge... Is it shita sumi?

    12. #12
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      SU like Russell stated. But it is/was such an odd pattern that the definition of bekko seems describe the fish as it is in the photo.
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by nishikigoi21 View Post
      There's only one fish that I posted here and the last 2 photos were just examples that I drew. The "Bekko" on the left is if all of the visible underlying sumi came to the surface(not sure if the forehead smudge is sumi or skull/brain) and the "Shiro Utsuri" is just my dream design...lol



      Interesting that my instinct matches your answer but could you elaborate on why you say it's a Shiro Utsuri?It is a Shiro Utsuri because it has Showa Sumi and not Sanke Sumi I honestly still don't know why I myself thinks it's a SU...

      And I like how you say kage sumi will never emerge. Do you have any photos of true kage sumi on a SU or Showa? I am afraid I don't have any
      How long do you think the sumi on this fish will stay like this in hard water? Are we talking months or years?Only the Koi knows the answer to that question

      Answers in red.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    14. #14
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by audioenvy View Post
      Along those lines (but opposite), what do you call sumi that can be barely seen under the surface but *might* emerge... Is it shita sumi?

      I call it Sumi that has not emerged yet or underlying Sumi. "Shita" does mean 'under' or 'beneath' though
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      It is a Shiro Utsuri because it has Showa Sumi and not Sanke Sumi
      Could you elaborate further the difference between these two sumi types?
      People often give simple explanations like, if it's a band/wrapping then it is a Shiro Utsuri and if it's blocks then it'a a Shiro Bekko...I've also read here of people stating that Bekko will not have any sumi under the lateral line and also the tejima & motoguro rule, but I know that this isn't always the case and more of a textbook example.

      Will you be able to differentiate between Sanke sumi & Showa sumi even if I zoomed in really close? Or are you "looking at the entire picture"?

      Take this Marudo Sanke for example. You might recognize it as it won Mature Champion(70BU) at the 2017 All Japan Koi Show...but I know I'm not the only one that had to look twice after reading it was shown as a Sanke. Now I'm not going to argue about the authenticity of the variety with Hirasawa-san of Marudo Koi Farm, but I'm having difficulty understanding why this won against it's competitors...
      I have much to learn about general quality but clearly this Sanke isn't a textbook example of a "Sanke" having very heavy/big sumi, and the right pectoral fin even looks more like motoguro.


      PS: I filled in the bald spots in the sumi and also added a little more here and there and voila, we have a textbook Showa now...lol
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      Last edited by nishikigoi21; 1 Week Ago at 02:52 AM.

    16. #16
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nishikigoi21 View Post
      Could you elaborate further the difference between these two sumi types?The color and quality of the Sumi is different. Where it grows on the fish is different. Sanke Sumi is more of a lacquer black but that is often confused when people see Showa Sumi that is on top of Beni. It makes Sumi look better than it is when it is on top of Beni.
      People often give simple explanations like, if it's a band/wrapping then it is a Shiro Utsuri and if it's blocks then it'a a Shiro Bekko...I've also read here of people stating that Bekko will not have any sumi under the lateral line and also the tejima & motoguro rule, but I know that this isn't always the case and more of a textbook example.All of these textbook examples are a mistake when defining ALL Showa and Sanke.

      Will you be able to differentiate between Sanke sumi & Showa sumi even if I zoomed in really close? Or are you "looking at the entire picture"?Depends on how close you zoom in, I am not that good at it.

      Take this Marudo Sanke for example. You might recognize it as it won Mature Champion(70BU) at the 2017 All Japan Koi Show...but I know I'm not the only one that had to look twice after reading it was shown as a Sanke. Now I'm not going to argue about the authenticity of the variety with Hirasawa-san of Marudo Koi Farm, but I'm having difficulty understanding why this won against it's competitors...I have seen this fish in person and could tell it was a Sanke.
      I have much to learn about general quality but clearly this Sanke isn't a textbook example of a "Sanke" having very heavy/big sumi, and the right pectoral fin even looks more like motoguro.I am not sure what a textbook example would be but it has a Sanke body and Sanke Sumi so it is a Sanke


      PS: I filled in the bald spots in the sumi and also added a little more here and there and voila, we have a textbook Showa now...lolLooks like a Showa pattern on a Sanke body to me
      .
      Last edited by Russell Peters; 1 Week Ago at 09:59 AM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

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