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  • Results 1 to 15 of 15

    Thread: What is this?

    1. #1
      Jakessvx1 is offline Senior Member
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      What is this?

      Hi all

      I know this is a terrible picture, but itís the best I could do. What is the white stuff on this Chagoiís tail?

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      Heís probably 10Ē long. I got him about a month ago. Didnít see anything on him at that time. Heís active and eating well. No behavioral changes at all.

      Thanks

    2. #2
      graybird's Avatar
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      Looks like a healing ulcer, ut impossible to be sure from this pic. Can you bowl it and take a pic with the water not turbulent? Be sure to check fins on all your fish to be sure you don't have fin rot making the rounds.
      Mary

    3. #3
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      I’m gonna try to catch him. I have another fish that concerns me as well. It’s gonna be very challenging to get them though. Small fish, big pond. ��

    4. #4
      Jakessvx1 is offline Senior Member
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      Okay, I caught them. That was a cold experience. Graybird I think you were right. Looks like ulcers. These are two fish that I bought about a month ago. They act fine and eat well, but I’m glad I got them and looked more closely. It’s worse than I thought. The each have ulcers on the left lower jaw line.
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      The goshiki had what looked like a blister on his forehead, but it popped when I netted him. I think whatever it was looks healedName:  67314FB0-D6FC-4D2E-B89B-78DDA171DDB5.jpg
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      The goshiki also had what looked like two little bumps on his dorsal fin that have pretty much gone away over the last few daysName:  88AB9406-8C57-4C4F-9BB8-516FCAE586B9.jpg
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      Here’s the chagoi’s tail. The white part that was seen in the original post seems to have come off when I netted him.
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      I bathed them in Kordon’s fish prep, which is similar to Melafix. It’s a mix of oils and aloe Vera. Then I put them back in the pond in a netted off area. I’m not sure what to do with them now. I have a 300 gallon filtered water garden I could treat them in. Have I now introduced a pathogen that the rest of my fish will be at risk for? I know very little about koi treatments. What do I do?

      My water parameters are good except my kh and gh are low (about 75), which doesn’t surprise me. We had tons of rain when Florence came near. I’m slowly adding baking soda. Ph is 8.2. Nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia are all 0. It’s a 9000 gallon setup and it is heavily filtered with 3 SG’s, two large showers, a Cetus, and an ultrasieve 3. My water is very clear and all the fish are acting totally happy.

      Thanks for any help.

    5. #5
      graybird's Avatar
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      Glad you could get a better look at things. This looks bacterial, meaning that pathogenic bacteria have gotten the upper hand in your pond. What is your water temp? How often are you doing filter cleanings and water changes? Have you added any new fish in the last few months? I would suggest that you read through the stickies at the top of the Emergency forum. You will want to order some Tricide Neo powder, and you will need to have either clove oil or MS-222 for anesthetic. You can use a quarter of the 1-gallon Tricide Neo powder packet in a quart of distilled water to make a spray. Swab the open wounds with Betadine/equivalent iodine, spray with Tricide, then apply a sealer -- friar's balsam or powdered dental adhesive. Treat once only.

      For the pond, if you are super careful you could use potassium permanganate in your pond at a 2 ppm strength. Doublecheck your calculations and measure carefully, as too much WILL kill your koi; you must be very sure of the pond volume. It is an indiscriminate oxidizer, will stain anything it touches and always stay inside when dealing with PP powder so it doesn't blow into your eyes and blind you. You can search KP for more info; there is some on the emergency health sticky. Normally it is recommended to keep the water purple for 4 hours, but your koi are in kinda bad shape, so I'd give it one shot of PP and then do water changes of at least 10% at least twice a week. I would not move them into a water garden at this stage. Keeping clean water is your best bet. Ideally, a heated quarantine tank with a cycled filter would be the best environment. You can do a DIY setup fairly inexpensively if that's a possibility.
      Mary

    6. #6
      Jakessvx1 is offline Senior Member
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      Temperature is 72. I clean my SGs about once a month. I do 5-10% water changes every couple of weeks. The two fish I’m having problems with are new. I got them about a month ago. I didn’t quarantine them. I’m wondering if I need to do the PP. Since the fish are new is it possible that the bacteria isn’t really systemic? Where do I get tricide neo, PP, and dental paste? Thanks so much for the help.

    7. #7
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      So it will be a few days before I can get the Tricide Neo. In the mean time I have the two unhealthy koi in a netted laundry basket that is submerged in the pond. I have to think I’m only causing them more stress doing that. I don’t think they’re going to eat in there. On top of that the basket is freaking out all of my other fish. They won’t come to the surface to eat. If I throw sinking pellets in they go nuts for them so I think they’re fine, just freaked out by the basket and the fact that I had a seine net in there yesterday. If I release the sick fish into the pond I will have a heck of a time catching them again. The water garden has perfect water parameters and is highly filtered and aerated. I think I need to move them there if clean water is the only concern.

    8. #8
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      I have another thought. I have a cycled 10 gallon tank. The water is 83 degrees. I can remove the tiny tiger barbs in there and put the koi in. I have clove oil and I can easily get iodine. I’m wondering what if I treated the ulcers with iodine and then put the fish in the ten gallon. I could add some salt and some type of antibacterial med to the water column. This option would allow me to act quickly. I know the tank is small, but it would be only a few days and I would feed them very minimally. If they will eat at all. What do y’all think?

    9. #9
      graybird's Avatar
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      How big are the fish? Potential problem: to transfer koi, the temps need to be as nearly equal as possible, and in no case larger than a 5 degree difference. The water garden is sounding like a better bet.

      Another option is to get some oxolinic acid, available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/CrystalClear-...70_&dpSrc=srch

      You can do baths in 5 gallons of water in which you have dissolved .473g (that's POINT 473 grams) of pure oxolinic acid. Aerate, cover the tub and leave fish for 30 mins-2 hours depending tolerance. This can also be used to treat the pond in place of PP, providing you take filtration offline.
      Mary

    10. #10
      Jakessvx1 is offline Senior Member
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      Mary- thanks a bunch for your help. The goshiki is 6-7” and the chagoi is 9-10”. So it would be a more than 10 degree jump. If I acclimate slowly would it work? I like the idea of the aquarium, because then I can see them well for monitoring purposes. Plus the warmer water would help right? If you don’t like that idea then I’ll do the water garden.

      I have the clove oil and I just got the iodine and powdered denture adhesive. Should I go ahead and use those or wait and get the Tricide Neo?

      Also, I have pond melafix. Is that worth using in any way? I’m going to see if I can find PP locally. Will PP kill the beneficial bacteria? Thanks again.

    11. #11
      graybird's Avatar
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      Happy to help! I know how hard it is to chart the right course given a number of options. The 10 gallon tank is WAY too small for these two, you would want closer to 200 gallons. That small a volume of water makes it too difficult to control water quality.

      You are fine with just iodine and the denture powder. Do you have any antibiotic ointment (not cream)? You can put a bit of that on after you swab with the iodine. Have you used clove oil or worked on fish before, or do you need help with that?

      Melafix and Pimafix smell nice, but they coat the gills and often irritate the fish, so we recommend not to use them. I like to put fish with open sores in .3% salted water (that's 3/1000, one pound salt per 125 gallons) but you can't do that with plants in your watergarden.

      PP can nuke your filters if dosed high enough, but I have used a single 2ppm dose plenty of times and it doesn't affect my established filters.

      Going forward, you might want to get a couple of books on treating koi. I like Eric Johnson's Koi Health and Disease (2006), it's very newbie-friendly, and the gold standard is Duncan Griffiths' Step by Step Advanced Koi Diagnosis and Treatment. You might also look at koiorganisationinternational.org, we offer a number of articles and courses in koi health, many of which are free.
      Mary

    12. #12
      Jakessvx1 is offline Senior Member
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      Mary you have been very helpful. Thanks so much. I read the stickies like you said and one of them gave pretty thorough instructions on the clove oil. So I will just follow those.

      My last question is where to get PP? Could you give me a link for the proper brand/type?

      Thanks again.

    13. #13
      graybird's Avatar
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      EBay has lots of listings, I tried to copy a link but tripped over my own stupidity. The formula you use is:
      .381 x desired PPM = grams per 100 gallons. So for you with 9000 gallons (please be sure of this!!),
      .381 x 2 ppm = .762 g/100 gal
      .762 x 90 (to get to 9k gallons from 100)
      = 68.58 grams or 2.42 oz. You will want to weigh it, not use a measuring cup, and please use eye protection. Mix the powder up in 1-5 gallons of water and pour around perimeter of pond or into water return/waterfall.
      Mary

    14. #14
      Jakessvx1 is offline Senior Member
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      Okay, so clove oil works really well. Things went smoothly I thought. I was able to put iodine, Neosporin, and denture powder on each wound. The fish revived rather quickly and I placed them in the water garden. So far so good.

      Also, I ordered the PP. I will follow your instructions. My pond is probably closer to 9500 gallons, but I will double check before I do anything. I understand that the PP is dangerous so I will be very careful.

      Outside of the PP treatment what should I do? Should I catch the fish at some point and see if their wounds are healing? Any other follow up that I should do?

      Thanks

    15. #15
      graybird's Avatar
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      Well done! Keep good water -- clean filters at least twice weekly in the water garden and pond, and do water changes twice a week in the water garden and at least once weekly in the pond.

      I like to use sinking food to get a glimpse of the undersides, rather than net them again, unless you think things are going south.
      Mary

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