Pickerel asked for proof with pictures that it can happen and he got them. Not saying plenty of people don't have this style build and haven't experienced a failure yet but they are out there.
There is a fairy tale new builders should read when deciding on a build method call The Three Little Pigs. Check it out if you haven't heard of it.
Which house would you pick?
Thank you for the links tbullard. I am still in the process of going through each thread. So far it looks like only one of them has an actual rebar-reinforced collar going around the entire perimeter. I am very surprised that this could happen and grateful for your post. A couple of extenuating circumstances are worth pointing out: 1. extremely deep frost line that caused the earth to turn to mush (I won't have that here in SC) 2. The hole was left uncovered for a long period of time. I think I can learn from that and plan my excavation accordingly.
From what I have learned here, I definitely won't do vertical walls, and I thank you for that. I think I will reach some compromise between vertical and the shallow angle suggested in post #23. My own extenuating circumstance is that I have a wife of 44 years who doesn't want a concrete "swimming pool" in the front yard. My current plan is already stretching her imagination way beyond her comfort level.
Last edited by pickerel; 09-23-2018 at 10:13 AM.
Why would you build a house from Graphene? You have mentioned carbon fiber and now graphine. Those products are great and there advantage is that they are lightweight. There is no need for that in a pond build. Steel reinforced concrete is the gold standard.
This will be a controversial comment but if budget is limiting the fundamental structure of your koi pond then maybe a koi pond isn't in your budget.
This debate has been going on for a while. Here is a good read from 2008! Pay special attention to Boggen's post on the matter. https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...d-edge-of-pond
I think one thing that is skewing this discussion is What is a pond collar? To me a collar is simply a concrete ring located at ground level surrounding the edge of a pond. Below that the pond should be dug with appropriate slopes to prevent caving of the pond walls. The collar is simply to reinforce the pond edge so that coping rocks have a stable foundation.
What we are seeing more of is a footer located halfway down the hole which is supporting a wall of concrete. I just cant figure out why a builder wouldn't simply locate this footer just a few feet lower at the bottom of the pond so that it is on solid ground and twice the width of the wall stacked on top of it. The cost of the footer isn't going to change so the only additional cost would be a couple extra rows of block and you would have a solid concrete wall.
Wooosh, missed the point but thanks for your evaluation of these materials. You must be fun at parties!
I’d say it certainly is in my budget. For over 5 years I greatly enjoyed a straight walled clay/liner pond in my yard for minimal cost of money and time. I regularly work beside it and it has brought a great deal of happiness to my life.
For another 5 years, I’ll enjoy this minor upgrade to my pond with or without your engineering approval!
Another example to add.
https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...Pond-New-issue
I have a spot in the front of the house that’s between the garage and the entrance of the house and in front of the bedroom facing the street. That spot wouldbe good for a concrete collar pond. My wife would have a heart attack lol but if my guestimation is good dimensions should be 10 feet by 24 feet.
You have been lucky. Part of that “luck” may be associated with your particular soil characteristics at your location. That may or may not change over time. Hopefully, for your sake, things will continue on as they have.
My concern about posts such as yours, however, is that other would-be pond-builders may regard your current outcome as evidence that it is perfectly fine to build a liner pond with unsupported vertical earthen walls. It is not perfectly fine — it is taking a risk — and it does not require an extensive engineering background to confirm this. The concrete collar does indeed help, but the collar alone does not guarantee that the soil walls will not collapse inward.
Others who choose this method of pond-building should do so with an understanding of the risks involved.
I didn't say 2:1 is unsafe just that it is very steep and isn't anywhere close to a shallow slope. A shallow slope would be 1:2 or 1:3. Generally a 1:1 slope is the maximum stable slope for soil (depending and the structure of the soil and also deals with erosion) but 2:1 seems perfectly reasonable with the hydrostatic pressure from the pond side.
Agreed! I’ve been pretty clear in this post that I weighed the options and chose what worked best for me. I also clearly stated that I’m comfortable rebuilding if it doesn’t hold up. I’ve had great success on the clay so far, and hope it continues for many more years. If not, no sweat!
I also agree that it doesn’t require an engineering degree to see the risk, which is why I don’t feel that sharing my results is bad for would be pond builders. In case they lack common sense....
WOULD BE POND BUILDERS, MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE. IF YOU BUILD A STRAIGHT WALLED LINER POND, IT MAY OR MAY NOT HOLD UP!
My pond is new (6 months old) and the issues I have are minimal. Some dirt must of fell behind the liner (Next to the skimmer where the collar stops) when I did a water change. The other area I am concerned about is at the “L”. The bulge I had pushed back in with my hand. I think all the exposed dirt/sand is causing this. If I had pavers down it would help with rain runoff. In my post I was just trying to see if this is normal.