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    Thread: Low-Profile Shower Filter

    1. #81
      kwickcut's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zac Penn View Post
      Boy I am late to the Party aren't I???????

      Kurt, the shower (On no, he didn't just call this a "Shower" ) is coming along nicely. I can't wait to see how many times you have to install and remove those diffuser disks until you find just the right configuration that distributes the water evenly across the entire surface of the Rio Media blocks.

      That FlowFriendPro is pretty amazing to provide that much water for that little wattage. At 70 watts I could probably get 3000 GPH through a few of my airlift manifolds at 11" of lift, if I got the submergence deep enough, but there is no way I could get the 7000+ GPH without using almost 3 times that electricity.

      Now onto The Debate...

      Can someone show me where "crashing, shearing, splashing, etc..." of water onto a surface is superior at oxygenation, VS simple old surface area interaction with the atmosphere?
      Surface area interaction with the atmosphere is where 99% of the aeration of the pond is achieved when using aerated bottom drains. It isn't the small air bubbles being pumped into the water that aerates the pond, it is the bringing the water deep in the pond up to the surface so the water molecules will have interaction with the atmosphere and aerate the pond.

      My thoughts have always been that if you can break up 8,000 GPH into over 1700 individual streams of water (that is the minimum flow rate for the Full Sized Zakki Shower and how many holes there are in the distribution manifold), then you will aerate that water better than if you used a simple pipe spraybar and broke that water into 100 JETS of water at the top of the shower. That is why I made the Zakki Showers with that complex distribution manifold so that I could evenly break up that water and turn it into a shower instead of a spraybar. With a spraybar...Once that water touches the media, it stops being a jet and it starts to slowly meander down the surface of the media until it gets to the bottom of the show tray. Then it breaks up into maybe 100 thick streams of water and flows onto the second layer of media in your standard showers. The only crashing, smashing, hair pulling that happens in these multi-stack trays is at the very top under the spraybar and maybe at the top of each media stack if the trays are separated enough. everywhere else in the media pack the water is gracefully flowing around or through the media and it certainly isn't crashing.

      Now that we have this Rio Media in nice 12" x 12" x 2" thick blocks we can break up this water after every single block of media and aerated so much better than when I was using 2"x2"x2" Cermedia blocks and enclosing them in a single perforated basket.

      Then I let the water pass through the Rio Media blocks for nitrification, and then I break the water back up with my divider plates (same ones Kurt is using in this shower) so it can get aerated again before passing through the second Rio Media block. So lets play with some numbers using Kurts shower as an example...
      There are 12 Rio Media columns in this shower
      There are 3 blocks total in each column
      There are 2 of my divider plates in each column, that will actually break up the water into tiny drops for aeration purposes (we are going to ignore whatever distribution plate that Kurt makes on top of the media and the bottom divider plate because it may be slightly submerged at the bottom thus not breaking up the water)
      There will be at most 10,000 GPH going through this shower, so if it is evenly distributed that is 833 GPH going through each stack of media
      After the water passes through the top block of media it will be broken up into roughly 484 individual streams by my divider plate before it falls onto the second block of media
      That is 1.7 gallons per hour passing through each hole of the divider plate so that should provide plenty of dwell time to aerate those drops
      Then it will pass through the second block for nitrification before being broken up again into 484 streams and then into the third Rio block
      So... 12(484 + 484) = 11,616 individual streams of water that are constantly in contact with the atmosphere for exchanging of gasses

      If this shower (oh crap I did it again) does NOTHING ELSE it will perforation aeration and nitrification better than anyone can imagine, and it will do it at an incredibly low energy cost.

      Just for fun I am going to leave this video here for aeration purposes... This is 3,150 GPH flowing through each stack of Rio Media (6,300 GPH Total)
      question.. each stand being used to hold the media up is it drilled and this is why the water pattern is so equal?
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    2. #82
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      Indeed we shall. The only difference between this shower and any other is height. If you're saying that all shower media plugs up, you're shall bring upon you the wrath of believers who claim that shower filters are pure awesome sauce.

      Obviously I think it's going to work, but that's only because there's an RDF in front of it. A sieve might work as well, but with any other filter, I'd probably be agreeing with you.
      the rdf you are using are covered with industrial filter panels with a woven stainless steel mesh of 70 microns. this is very nice and will stop all the big debris really nicely for sure. its anything smaller then that not to mention the bio that will grow. i would be worried that this would begin to clog the media.

      i don't think you can not really compare your shower to what most know as a traditional shower setup. i mean it is doing the same thing but in a different fashion.
      with the traditional shower the water can splash off the media without passing through it and continue to be splashed the rest of the way down. your setup is more like a trickle tower that has been used in salt water tanks for years. the water splashes inside the media as it passes through then drops to the next plate.

      i see you setup more as a trickle tower setup like i used on my reef tank 25 years ago. we used crushed pearlite with fine mesh screen and it worker very well but they would eventually clog and need to be replaced usually twice a year. with your setup "if" the top plate becomes clogged then all the water would go around the first layer and skip every layer below it.

      i do understand what you are trying to accomplish and i hope it works. time will tell.

      i hope it kills it but i always fear what may happen.


      edit: i forgot to ask are you going to use some kind of cover?

      kwick
      Last edited by kwickcut; 2 Days Ago at 06:45 PM.
      Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. - Benjamin Franklin.

      you cant fix stupid no matter how hard you try.

    3. #83
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zac Penn View Post
      I think there may be a "Foot-In-Mouth" coming for you Then again, we shall see!!!!!
      lets hope you are correct. have you ever tested this media in this configuration on a living pond? every display i see on you tube is using tap water and we all know there is a big difference between tap water and the living water of a pond.
      Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. - Benjamin Franklin.

      you cant fix stupid no matter how hard you try.

    4. #84
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      Quote Originally Posted by kwickcut View Post
      lets hope you are correct. have you ever tested this media in this configuration on a living pond? every display i see on you tube is using tap water and we all know there is a big difference between tap water and the living water of a pond.
      I've been using a little piece of rio about the size of cermedia for over 3 months after rdf and it flows through great still

    5. #85
      Zac Penn's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kwickcut View Post
      question.. each stand being used to hold the media up is it drilled and this is why the water pattern is so equal?
      The media itself is a great distribution plate so even if the water isn't completely distributed on top of the media by the time it passes through the block it will be better distributed due to all of the passageways inside the media. However, without my divider plates the surface tension of the water as it falls from one block to another would create a very thick stream of water as it drops to the next block. My divider plates break that water up into 200 streams of water as it falls to the next block so it achieves much greater aeration during that fall.
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    6. #86
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      I actually just checked the piece. It is in full sunlight on my top tier and my stupid snails are clogging some of the pores. The media is still passing some water but not near when it was virgin. Seems fine to me. I put my in direct sunlight to see if I could get it to clog. All my media got biofilm pretty fast and within 2 weeks. The weather is starting to cool in ca though
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    7. #87
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      I actually just checked the piece. It is in full sunlight on my top tier and my stupid snails are clogging some of the pores. The media is still passing some water but not near when it was virgin. Seems fine to me. I put my in direct sunlight to see if I could get it to clog. All my media got biofilm pretty fast and within 2 weeks. The weather is starting to cool in ca though
      Oh yeah that is definitely algae growth due to sunlight. If you move that piece to a darker location the algae will die off and eventually flake off. The same thing happens to all media/surfaces that are exposed tot he direct sunlight.
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    8. #88
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zac Penn View Post
      Oh yeah that is definitely algae growth due to sunlight. If you move that piece to a darker location the algae will die off and eventually flake off. The same thing happens to all media/surfaces that are exposed tot he direct sunlight.
      Yep. I really dont mind it and pretty sure algae consumes certain things. I would not recommend the rio to be in direct sunlight. Also what you are seeing is the snails making a film and growing in the media. The rdf removes the snails and they still grow in the rio media but not my ceramic round media. Need more pores for the eggs to attach

    9. #89
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      Quote Originally Posted by kwickcut View Post
      ...are you going to use some kind of cover?
      Yes, just haven't posted a picture yet. They have a 1/4" gap all around to allow air to be drawn in, and curved to shed rain and increase stiffness.
      Last edited by kimini; 1 Day Ago at 05:44 PM.

    10. #90
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      Quote Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post
      Wow. I am very late to this party, and I am sorry that I missed this thread when it was first posted.

      Kurt, I think your fabrication skills with the plastic-forming of the shower box are very impressive. I wish I knew how to do that. As I see that you are also in San Diego County (I live in Lemon Grove), perhaps you'll let me pick your brain sometime? (The beer is on me).

      My pond is pretty small (~1300 gallons) and basic compared to the likes of the ponds I see on this forum, but I am also interested in keeping my water and electrical costs in check....I am currently running exclusively on airlifts.
      Oooo ooo ooo! I love airlifts! Could you post your set up in a new thread? I will be moving in a month or so, so have a chance to build a pond from scratch with a little more knowledge than the first time around. Would really like to use airlifts!
      GloriaL
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    11. #91
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      Hi Gloria,

      A few thoughts, lest I hijack someone else's thread:

      1. In response to your request, I put two links to my long-ago build thread at the bottom of this post. The pond itself and the basic airlift reservoirs are still in place and working as intended, but I have re-arranged various parts of the actual filtration several times.....and efforts (i.e. *experiments*) are still on-going. I am highly reluctant to post any recent pictures because, frankly, the pond/yard looks like a messy science-experiment......which I guess it is.

      2. This pond was deliberately built smaller than ideal for Koi (budget limitations, partly) but also because I wanted to experiment with some different filtration ideas, and this is a lot cheaper and easier to do on a smaller scale. In particular, I plumbed the BD and the skimmer each to a set of (3) vertical airlift reservoirs, with the idea that I could very easily try different sizes of airlift pipes, air-injection depths, bubble configurations, etc. While my design made it easy to try such things, it did not lend itself to the best possible efficiency in using airlifts. Why? Because with what I created, I had to actually *lift* the water high enough to gain a motive force to flow through the rest of the filtration. A more-efficient design would have had something more along the lines of gravity-flow through the filters, then physically lifting the water only enough to return to the pond. Raceway-type filters (remember the ERIC design?) are really good candidates for airlifts.

      I mention this to you because I do not want my design to be referenced necessarily as "the way to go." My design was intended to create an easy platform for various experiments in filtration. A more refined design would be considerably more efficient.

      3. Lastly, using airlifts to their maximum efficiency really requires that the pond be designed from the start with the intention of using airlifts, as doing so requires some design considerations, and it is often much harder to make changes after construction is completed. The filtration design, especially, is important. While I will be happy to dialog with you further on this topic and offer what limited insights I can, my understanding is that both Kent Wallace (https://www.livingwatersolutions.com) and Zac Penn (http://deepwaterkoi.com/) have built airlift-driven ponds as part of their professional endeavors, and thus both Kent and Zac have a lot more experience in these matters than myself. I am sure they can offer you some excellent guidance.

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ighlight=Small

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ighlight=Small

    12. #92
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      Paultergeist, thanks so much! Please see my new thread 'One More Time-Airlifts' in Pond Construction. Do you mind if I copy and paste your above reply to that thread? BTW, I totally understand messy science experiments. There are always at least two or three going in my kitchen. I would love to see what you have going on, tho!
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    13. #93
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      A little bird told me that a distribution plate is almost ready for testing. I want to see water flow over that plate to see how close I was in my hole spacing estimates.
      Update, Update, Update

      You don't have an actual job do you???? LOL
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    14. #94
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      Okay, okay, settle down. So yes, I had a chance to play around a bit with the prototype distribution plate.

      Observations:
      1. When the water comes down the distribution pipes, when it comes to a Tee fitting, it does what in hindsight should be obvious, most of it hits the downstream side of the vertical section of the Tee, such that the water tends to pile up more on that side.

      2. As the water continues down the pipes, it hits the last fitting, a smooth(er) 90 degree fitting, so not surprisingly, it ends up with more flow than the upstream Tees. I may have to tip the pipes up a bit to give some advantage to the first two Tees over the end piece to better even out the flow.

      4. I may—or may not—cut the feed pipes where they enter so that they can be more carefully leveled, as some aren't truly square to the media, but they're fairly close.

      5. As a result of the variations, no two ports have the same flow. On top of that, there appears to be variations in flow as well. That is, the FF Pro pump seems to dither between two points in its output. For 10 seconds, the water flow might be X, and then it might switch to maybe 1.1X for a while. I don't think it's a concern, just a "feature".

      6. Because of all of this, and assuming all the distribution plates are identical, some will have partial distribution, and some will be fully covered with some water coming off the edges.

      7. The height of the plates can be varied to even out the flow; making the end ones being a bit higher is probably all that's needed to throttle back the flow advantage.

      7. Another variable is what flow to set the pump to. Back calculating, it looks like the guessed dynamic head of 0.55 meters is pretty darn close. At that head, and at 1300 rpm, the pump is moving 33 cubic meters (8700 gph) @155 watts. Moving up to 1400 rpm yields ~10,000 gph @180 watts. This is very promising because it ends up being not much different than when running the MB with its air pump.

      Flow will increase somewhat once the plumbing is changed to its final configuration, with fewer bends and shorter overall length, so the pump will be throttled back to conserve power.

      The pictures are in no particular order, but give at least an idea of what's going on. I think all-in-all, the distribution plates work well enough that the prototype won't be changed at all, and the flow varied with small height adjustments. Portions of some blocks will have little flow, which, depending upon the shower filter religion of your choice, may be a good thing.
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      Last edited by kimini; 13 Hours Ago at 10:32 PM.

    15. #95
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      the only thing i would consider is making the plates like a shoe box lid. add sides to them to keep the water on the plate instead of running off the plate.
      Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. - Benjamin Franklin.

      you cant fix stupid no matter how hard you try.

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