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  • Results 1 to 15 of 15

    Thread: KH Crash?

    1. #1
      Ubiquitous is offline Supporting Member
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      KH Crash?

      Hello,

      I think I had a KH crash (is that a thing)? Fish have been acting fine (other than the Ochiba with the white ring on it in my other thread), but I noticed over the past month that its been really hard to keep my nitrate and ammonia in check, even with constant water changes. Thought the filter wasnt working right. I blamed it on the hot weather and increased activity of the fish, but now I am not sure. I should of tested the KH earlier, but I didnt and wont repeat that mistake again.

      Here is what I tested today.

      First, Tap Water test:
      PH: 8.0
      KH: 110
      GH: 180

      Pond Water: (morning test) - (4,000 gal pond)
      PH: 7.5
      KH: 40 - 60 (tested 3 times and got results in this range)
      GH: 180
      Nitrate: 5.0 ppm
      Amonia: .25 ppm
      Nitrite: 0 - .25 ppm

      The last week I started testing PH daily and it has been in the range of 7 - 7.5, checking mornings and nights.


      What could be causing the crash in KH? How do I combat it? Ive read baking soda - but is that practical in a 4,000gal pond to bring it up so much? Also read that it needs to be min above 100. I was thinking of performing a large water change today, but how much is too much?

      Thank you for your help.

    2. #2
      graybird's Avatar
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      Short answer is: Yes, a KH crash is a thing, but it is more commonly known as a pH crash because most don't catch it as quickly as you did. Filters use up KH as they filter. What type of filtration do you have?

      I would like to see you test your tap water for ammonia and nitrite. I'm in NorCal and my tap water comes out with an ammonia reading due to the chloramine in the water supply. That might explain your pond readings.

      You can increase your KH but you must make sure there is no ammonia first. Use a binder and replenish every 48 hours. One pound baking soda per 2000 gallons will raise the Kh by 35 ppm (that's equivalent to 2 drops' worth on the Kh test).

      Long term, maybe additional filtration?
      Mary

    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by graybird View Post
      Short answer is: Yes, a KH crash is a thing, but it is more commonly known as a pH crash because most don't catch it as quickly as you did. Filters use up KH as they filter. What type of filtration do you have?

      I would like to see you test your tap water for ammonia and nitrite. I'm in NorCal and my tap water comes out with an ammonia reading due to the chloramine in the water supply. That might explain your pond readings.

      You can increase your KH but you must make sure there is no ammonia first. Use a binder and replenish every 48 hours. One pound baking soda per 2000 gallons will raise the Kh by 35 ppm (that's equivalent to 2 drops' worth on the Kh test).

      Long term, maybe additional filtration?

      Ill check my tap for Ammonia now, I live in So. Cal. 2 pump circuits on my pond. 4" BD to ZakkiSieve, pump, then Aqua Ultima ii 20,000, then back to three TPRs. 2nd circuit is Skimmer, basket, pump, UV, waterfall. I am contemplating putting another filter in the 2nd circuit, but not sure how. I can not gravity feed anything.

    4. #4
      graybird's Avatar
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      Do you belong to the San Diego club? Lots of filtration wizards there.
      Mary

    5. #5
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      You need more biofiltration in particular, both the sieve and the bead are mechanical filters.
      Mary

    6. #6
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      I do, but inactive. Its hard to get to the meetings with the schedule I have at home/work. (excuses I know).

      I want to put a shower in, but I am not sure how without gravity helping (I could be way off on this). Whats the best way to add bio filtration?

    7. #7
      ademink's Avatar
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      Zac at Deepestwr sells showers you can use. Talk to him. My entire pond is pump fed currently, including shower.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    8. #8
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      Guess what my first time with baking soda was overdose at once so the fish didn’t like it much but they survived
      Frequent water change from 25-40% should be acceptable thus prevent nitrate poisoning
      Beads filter thrive with KH range from 150-200ppm so you’re will need to check this more often for the sake of that Ultima
      M.Nguyen


    9. #9
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      Describe Your filtration , and let’s see if We can help

    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      Guess what my first time with baking soda was overdose at once so the fish didn’t like it much but they survived
      Frequent water change from 25-40% should be acceptable thus prevent nitrate poisoning
      Beads filter thrive with KH range from 150-200ppm so you’re will need to check this more often for the sake of that Ultima
      How much Baking Soda did you use to "overdose", Im trying to raise it, but afraid to put too much in too soon. Is 1 lb a day too much? Is 1/2lb a day? Pond is 4000 gal, I will need to raise it KH at least 100. I did a 50% WC yesterday, but would prefer not to consume thousands of gallons of water a day if I dont have to.

    11. #11
      icu2's Avatar
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      There's a calculator at the top of the forum under "Koi Calculators":

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/koicalcs.php?do=calckh

      17.86 ppm is equal to one "drop" of the reagent or 1 DH.
      If you have an estimate of your pond volume just enter it and how much of a change you'd like to see
      and it should show you how much you need to add to see the change.
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    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by catfish whiskers View Post
      Describe Your filtration , and let’s see if We can help
      2 circuits on my pond. 4" aerated BD to ZakkiSieve, pump, then Aqua Ultima ii 20,000, then back to three TPRs. 2nd circuit is Skimmer, basket, pump, UV, waterfall. Concrete pond, water level is 1' above ground and 3.5' below ground. "filter pit" is only about 4" below water level - so its difficult to gravity feed anything and I cant dig it out any further without incurring a lot of cost. I tried to make my water fall also a sort of bio filter, I stacked porous stones under that 1/3rd of the water falls through, as well as flagstone steps that 2/3rd cascades down the outside of (I drew up a super rough sketch in Paint). I know this isnt enough, but I knew I was short on my bio filtration and wanted to try something.


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    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      There's a calculator at the top of the forum under "Koi Calculators":

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/koicalcs.php?do=calckh

      17.86 ppm is equal to one "drop" of the reagent or 1 DH.
      If you have an estimate of your pond volume just enter it and how much of a change you'd like to see
      and it should show you how much you need to add to see the change.
      Thank you! Perfect

    14. #14
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      What size are Your TPR’s ? How many GPH is pumping on the TPR circuit ?
      It is possible to gravity feed TPR’s from a shower . So that option would be to place the shower after the bead filter.
      If that BD circuit is too much total for gravity feeding the TPR circuit , it could be split up , and the excess could be gravity fed back to the pond or into a lower point on the waterfall.
      Another option is to do a moving bed filter on the skimmer circuit that feeds the waterfall . It would be pump fed same as it currently is , but then the moving bed would gravity feed into the waterfall

    15. #15
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      First there is, as far as I know, no such thing as too much KH. If the KH is much below 80, typically the pH is tied to the value of the KH with it going down fast as the KH declines, but above about 80, with good aeration to drive off the carbon dioxide, the pH should be close to 8.3 or 8.4. You don't want to raise the KH if the pH is much lower very fast to prevent the pH from shifting rapidly, but once the pH is over 8, then you can add as much baking soda as you can afford and it will not affect the pH, just the KH. Some without bead filters can get by with KH values of 100-120, whereas those with bead filters are better served with KH values of 150 to 300. I would monitor my KH and if it dropped close to 100, for my 4000 gallon pond, I would add about a half a 13 pound bag of baking soda at a time.

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