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  • Results 1 to 15 of 15

    Thread: Even After Baytril Fred Still has a red spot

    1. #1
      firerunner is offline Junior Member
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      Even After Baytril Fred Still has a red spot

      Ok let me give some back ground and some pics
      I have a 6000 gallon koi pond completely enclosed.

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      It has screen and hardware wire around it

      insides is 13 kois ranging in size from a few inches to 28 inches. The little ones are a year old the big ones 13 or so.

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      Pond is well established had it for all these years and never ever had a problems. Numbers are spot on and remain consistent.

      Until last year - and Hurrican Irma

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      On the second picture that is my fish house and the water was halfway up (like shown in the first)
      All my koids were swimming around outside their pond in my fish house in filthy water

      We lost the roof on it and of course damage from the flood.

      When the water went down we immediately started treatment on everyone, medicated food, water changes salt to water etc etc.

      and I ended up with 2 sick fish..blinkie..and fred.

      It has been very stressful on my kois, the flood and then months of rebuilding, their quiet fish house was subjected to hammering and new roofs and dust and dirt and noise from dump trucks etc..

      So both blinkie and fred ended up on baytril. Blinkie has been fine for months..

      Fred sheesh I cannot get this ulcer to go away. It is back AGAIN same spot, it is just pinkish at this point. But it is there, I have done medicated food, I have done baytril (just finished it like a week ago!). Vet has scrapped the area and looked under a microscope..nothing. I checked the water parameters this morning all good. Even tasted the salt levels...well within normal range.

      I am at wits ends.

      What is this tricide paste you talk about here?

      Should I try it? How do I use it.?



      Should add Fred was a rescue, the original owners no longer wanted him so JUST before the flood he moved..here into Qt and then into the big pond and then the flood etc...Poor guy.

      any help is appreciated!!
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    2. #2
      firerunner is offline Junior Member
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      Husband said I forgot to add -- invasion of the talapia - when we flooded some how HUNDREDS of little fish (less then an inch) got into the fish house, so when the water went down we had to start catching them. Months went on of us stressing out the pond and trying to catch these fish and the little fish became big fish and 2 months ago we finally caught the last of them. These fish were big enough to eat (5 or 6 inches) and hid under the kois and were a B to catch. fast little things. Two months ago we shut everything down and and used a cast net to catch these bad fish. But man it was rough, We had to keep the kois out of the cast net while still trying to catch these dang unwanted fish. Final tally of the bigger ones was 21 when we did that (total fish caught in the pond from the flood was over 200)

      Seriously I am surprised that my whole pond is not sick given everything that has gone on in the past 10 months.

    3. #3
      graybird's Avatar
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      First off, do you have a test kit, and if so, could you post water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH.
      What type of filtration do you have?
      How many gallons is the pond, and what is water temperature?
      How long ago was the flooding?
      How often do you do water changes?
      What kind of medicated food did you use?
      What was the Baytril regimen?

      We can better address your question with more info
      Mary

    4. #4
      firerunner is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by graybird View Post
      First off, do you have a test kit, and if so, could you post water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH. Yes I have a test kit, Yes I tested it this morning PH is 9 (always 8.5 to 9.5 this is CONSISTENT since we are on well water) amonia is 0, Nitrite is 0 , Nitrate is showing trace amounts. Salinity is .2

      What type of filtration do you have?
      Again this is an established pond, the filter system is custom made by my husband, I have no idea, it has two BIG filters, two BIG pumps (is all behind the water falls) other then that..no idea. It has some sorta line that keeps it topped off automatically, at one end it sucks the water in, and then runs it thru the filters and pumps it out over the water fall. At that end is an over flow, so each week we over fill the pond (about 1 hour) since it is too big to do an actual water change. Again we have been doing this for same routine for 10 years.


      How many gallons is the pond, and what is water temperature? 6000 gallons water temp is 79 degrees (florida its hot)
      How long ago was the flooding? 10 months however again like I mentioned it has taken us 10 months to get the fish house back to normal. 8 weeks ago we were still catching the wild fish brought in from the flood
      How often do you do water changes? every week -- we do not change the water per say it is too big a pond, we over flow it there is an over flow valve by the waterfall, so we put water in at the one end (not shown in the pic, there is a river and then another pond area for them) and then open the over flow at the other end and let the water run out for about 60 mins we do this every sunday.
      What kind of medicated food did you use? Debride medicated food -- the entire pond was on it for 15 days when we had the flood
      What was the Baytril regimen? 22.7mg/ml 1 syringe (1.5ml) every 3 days for 5 treatments - vet also did a scrapping and nothing showed up on it.

      We can better address your question with more info
      answers are in the red - it is just a pink area right now but based on the history this past 10 months with Him its going to get more inflamed.

      Edited to add : I feed them a combo of food Hikari Koi Food, as well as Zeigler Koi Fancier
      Last edited by firerunner; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:48 PM.

    5. #5
      graybird's Avatar
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      I have had pretty good luck with persistent red spots using oxolinic acid baths -- currently sold under the name Wipeout, directions are on the label. It will kill your filter if used in your whole pond. Do a bath every other day in a covered tub with an airstone for 30 mins to 2 hrs depending on tolerance.

      You can also make your own medicated food -- I think there is a recipe on the Kodama website.
      Mary

    6. #6
      firerunner is offline Junior Member
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      I have never heard of that will have to look it up.

    7. #7
      ademink's Avatar
      ademink is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
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      Tricide Neo is excellent. If you are able, I would order a packet. There are several threads that instruct how to apply it as a paste but if you need details, please let us know! A packet can last you a long time if you store and use it properly.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    8. #8
      firerunner is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by ademink View Post
      Tricide Neo is excellent. If you are able, I would order a packet. There are several threads that instruct how to apply it as a paste but if you need details, please let us know! A packet can last you a long time if you store and use it properly.

      I just got some in lol However for whatever reason the spot is JUST barely pink. If I didn't know it was there it would not be noticeable . So I am going to wait and see. I peek at it every day to see if it has gotten worse and nope, i think this morning it might look a wee bit better.

      Everyone else in the pond is doing great!!


    9. #9
      ademink's Avatar
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      Good morning! Checking in to see if your issues have resolved.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    10. #10
      nmtsaki's Avatar
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      I just saw this thread and had a few questions, just to clarify the bigger picture, if something happens down the line. I was curious at how you arrived at 6000 gallons for your pond, did you (or your husband) calculate size based on pond dimensions, meter it in, or do something like the salt method to get an accurate gallonage? This is important, just in case you have to treat your entire system, including the filter units. Also, what type of test kits do you use? Are they the API liquid drop test kits, or test strips, or something else? Do you ever clean your filter units? Rinse the pads or media? If so, how often and how do you do it? Do you add oxygen in anyway, other than the waterfall?

      Hopefully, you will never have an invasion of tilapia again! However, if you do, it would be easier to corral the koi, and get them into a portable swimming pool (always good to have an intex pool as a quarantine system) then remove all the fish that are left over and sanitize your system using potassium permanganate, or at worst, bleach. That way you can ensure that you get rid of anything nasty that a flood or hurricane brings, or even the unwanted fish themselves.

      I would love to see pictures of your entire set up, it looks pretty nice. I'm so sorry that you had trouble with it from Irma, and I hope that Fred is definitely going to get rid of that persistent also, you've gotten really good advice on here.

      Nancy


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    11. #11
      firerunner is offline Junior Member
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      UPDATE

      We went on vacation came home and I now have TWO kois with ulcers (Fred (boy) and Blinkie(girl) )

      I'm over this..I called the vet and she made a house call yesterday.,

      Blinkie weighs 4.2 KG 27 inches long
      Fred Weighs 4 KG also 27 inches long


      She did a scraping, no parasites and a culture was taken (it will be sometime next week before we know what is growing.... the cultures was 150 bucks! just for it!) total bill almost 500.00 argh she was impressed with the pond set up and loved our fish house

      Left me Baytril injections for both fish as well as a salve to put on them. Now these are not bad ulcers, no holes in them just red inflamed spots one on each of them, their sides. (i have a pic of the one on blinking on my phone will get it off the phone and upload it)

      So that is the vet side.....

      This morning I had our local pond expert come out and test the waters (in case my numbers were wrong) He showed the same thing I show, my PH is a little high (8.9 was his reading) but as long as it remains consistent and doesn't fluctuate then we should be good,
      everything else..fine..Ammonia, Nitrite, nitrate , Phosphate Hardness all fine.

      He left me test strips (never used them) to test it daily and if there is any change showing on the test strips, then he wants me to use the pond kit (which is what I normally use.. the drops)

      He did give some suggestions, our bio filter is homemade (we have two great big ones and 2 pumps that are behind the water fall) he wants Hubby to add a way to sorta backwash the filters without the yucky stuff going into the pond if that makes sense. Essentially putting a tap on it, then we can open up the tap and letting the filters drain out of the fish house, so that water does not go back in the pond. Hope that made sense sheesh lol.

      This pond is 15 years old and I have never had any real illness . The only time I have even lost a fish was when it had a bamboo roof and a bird got in and..well ya had dinner and I lost one last year from the flooding.
      I am seriously at my wits end here.

      I have a turtle pond and a salt water coral tank as well and I always tell people the koi pond is a million times easier then the turtle pond or the saltwater tank LOL since the flooding..not so sure LOL.

      So that is where we are at. When the culture comes in I will let you all know what it says.

      And we will just keep plugging away

    12. #12
      firerunner is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by nmtsaki View Post
      I just saw this thread and had a few questions, just to clarify the bigger picture, if something happens down the line. I was curious at how you arrived at 6000 gallons for your pond, did you (or your husband) calculate size based on pond dimensions, meter it in, or do something like the salt method to get an accurate gallonage? This is important, just in case you have to treat your entire system, including the filter units. Also, what type of test kits do you use? Are they the API liquid drop test kits, or test strips, or something else? Do you ever clean your filter units? Rinse the pads or media? If so, how often and how do you do it? Do you add oxygen in anyway, other than the waterfall?

      Hopefully, you will never have an invasion of tilapia again! However, if you do, it would be easier to corral the koi, and get them into a portable swimming pool (always good to have an intex pool as a quarantine system) then remove all the fish that are left over and sanitize your system using potassium permanganate, or at worst, bleach. That way you can ensure that you get rid of anything nasty that a flood or hurricane brings, or even the unwanted fish themselves.

      I would love to see pictures of your entire set up, it looks pretty nice. I'm so sorry that you had trouble with it from Irma, and I hope that Fred is definitely going to get rid of that persistent also, you've gotten really good advice on here.

      Nancy

      Even though we built the pond ourselves we had the local pond guy come out and guide us. Between the main part (which is 5 feet deep) the river and then the smaller pond, he estimated it at 6000 gallons.

      We use API liquid drops -- the pond guy that came out used some sort of meter.. I think it tested everything. (he left us strips to do a quick check every morning but still wants us using the API kit as our main guide)

      No - we only use the waterfall for oxygen hmm maybe we should add something at the other end. Will mention it to hubby

      I never ever thought of getting out the QT tank and using it , think because it is only 500 gallons but having an Intex pool on hand is an AMAZING idea!! When we flooded our chicken coop flooded also (5 feet in their coop) we bought two large collapsible dog pends ( the vinyl ones) and have them in the storage room for emergencies. After Irma we went out to their coop in a boat, and rescued all the chickens, (lost two peeps that drowned) We bought 25 chickens into my house LOL. Gave them the sunroom.
      I cant explain the flooding it was so bad, and stressful and just bad.

      I will grab some more pis on the phone and upload them as well as the one of blinkie and her ulcer.

    13. #13
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      I would also love to see what these 2 big filters look like and what media is inside. Can you take pictures and upload please. Also how and how often do you clean these filters.
      When do you expect the culture results to come in? I'm assuming they are wound cultures.
      All the best for Fred and Blinkie.
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin



    14. #14
      firerunner is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      I would also love to see what these 2 big filters look like and what media is inside. Can you take pictures and upload please. Also how and how often do you clean these filters.
      When do you expect the culture results to come in? I'm assuming they are wound cultures.
      All the best for Fred and Blinkie.
      I will grab pics today of the filters and then again tomorrow of the NEW filters that the pond guy recommend we change to (with the tap) and then I will upload it all

      I would think so, she took blood from blinkie and the culture from Fred (his wound) . I am just waiting for all these test to come back, the vet said it will take 3 or 4 days for the cultures to grow so some day next week.

      We do a water change every sunday ..we actually over flow the pond, he has it set so that the water goes in one end (by the no fishing sign) and then an overflow at the other end that drains outside the pond and filters are cleaned every other week.


    15. #15
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      Thats great!
      I've never seen blood or wound culture results from fish before. Could you ask for a hard copy when they come?
      Very exciting. Thanks.
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin



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