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  • Results 1 to 12 of 12

    Thread: Shimi on Kujaku's head

    1. #1
      nishikigoi21's Avatar
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      Shimi on Kujaku's head

      I have a male Beni Kujaku that suddenly developed shimi on it's forehead over the course of the past 2 weeks. It's more like spilled ink rather than the typical "freckle" seen on Kohaku.
      With hard water I know this is inevitable with this variety, but are there other factors that are involved?

      I don't feed color food but I gave freeze-dried krill as a treat from about the same time...coincidence?


      Such a shame...the head was literally as white as a Platinum Ogon.
      Last edited by nishikigoi21; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:56 AM.

    2. #2
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      This is normal for inexpensive, bright, shiny new Koi that are not really as good as the dealer says they are. It is not inevitable with hard water.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    3. #3
      Rob Forbis is offline Senior Member
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      Interesting hikarimono retrospective. The smuge is inevitable as you said, typical as Russ says.

      “Shimi’ is one of those words. Some would reserve the term to apply exclusively to “tiny black dot found on the beni of gosanke”. Others may apply the term more broadly.

    4. #4
      kevin32's Avatar
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      Still seems like a pretty nice kujaku. I have seen the koi In person and he does have some nice fish.

    5. #5
      audioenvy is offline Supporting Member
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      I'd love to see a photo of the entire fish. Kujaku are a favorite of mine!

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    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      It is not inevitable with hard water.
      Quote Originally Posted by Rob Forbis View Post
      The smuge is inevitable as you said, typical as Russ says.
      You guys aren't matching answers...lol
      So is it or is it not inevitable for metallics to develop shimi down the road(in hard water)? Although I must say I have seen a lot of low-grade metallic tosai; especially Matsubas, Mukashi Ogons, Kin Showa, and Kin Ki Utsuri with forehead shimi that resemble little "goggles". And these are ones in Japan's soft water.

      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      This is normal for inexpensive, bright, shiny new Koi that are not really as good as the dealer says they are.
      But aren't we supposed to select the brightest & shiniest one with strong sheen when choosing Metallics? Please advise.
      Is the head shimi something that could have been foreseen? I looked at a lot of Kujaku and avoided ones with black pecs that resembled motoguro. Although personally I think it looks cool, I feel they have a stronger tendency to go "Beni Ginga" sooner than ones with white or reddish fins.

      Price-wise it wasn't out of my league but it definitely was a big step-up for me from tosai-grade to my first nisai so I must say I'm a bit disappointed...I was hoping I could enjoy it's current look before darkening up.

      I must admit, I don't have patience so I was looking for a piece with nicely pronounced matsuba already. As you can see, the one on the far left has the best Matsuba, long-term wise but the pattern wasn't appealing(which is a big deal for me). And I'm more of a Beni Kujaku fan so I was eyeing the other two but I felt the middle one's beni on it's right side was too heavy.

      And in defense of the dealer; it all comes down to my final decision when buying Koi

      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Still seems like a pretty nice kujaku. I have seen the koi In person and he does have some nice fish.
      I'm pretty sure you've never seen them...I don't know you and I don't show my fish at shows or post here for critiques...lol

      Quote Originally Posted by audioenvy View Post
      I'd love to see a photo of the entire fish. Kujaku are a favorite of mine!
      Sorry I don't have any decent photos but here is a bowl at the dealer and some from my QT aquarium from January 2018.

      "Her"(recently confirmed male) inazuma-style "ippon-hi" pattern was what striked me the most. Along with the bit of beni around the mouth and the earmuff-like round pattern on the right gill. The wrapping is a bit shallow on the right side of the body but it makes up for it on the left.
      "She" had a bit of what's called "kata-hara" where the confirmation was a bit off on one of the sides(I thought it could be eggs), but now I don't know what it was. It's a male with a female-like body and is fattening up nicely hiding the kata-hara. A bit of a weak tail tube though I think.

      Yours is a very nice Maruten Kujaku but the "tategoi" type look just isn't for my level of patience...lol
      At nearly 30 inches I'm guessing it's about 5-sai? Moving on, if I find a tosai or nisai like yours, I might gamble on it.
      Who's the breeder? I've noticed that some bloodlines like Marusei's, produce a lot of big & old fish that have yet to have the matsuba emerge through the beni plates.
      Last edited by nishikigoi21; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:51 AM.

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by nishikigoi21 View Post
      Yours is a very nice Maruten Kujaku but the "tategoi" type look just isn't for my level of patience...lol
      At nearly 30 inches I'm guessing it's about 5-sai? Moving on, if I find a tosai or nisai like yours, I might gamble on it.
      Who's the breeder? I've noticed that some bloodlines like Marusei's, produce a lot of big & old fish that have yet to have the matsuba emerge through the beni plates.
      It's 3 years old (will be yonsai this fall) and Marusei is indeed the breeder. I actually hope the matsuba does not emerge through the beni but that may be considered a show demerit for all I know.

    8. #8
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nishikigoi21 View Post
      You guys aren't matching answers...lol
      So is it or is it not inevitable for metallics to develop shimi down the road(in hard water)? Although I must say I have seen a lot of low-grade metallic tosai; especially Matsubas, Mukashi Ogons, Kin Showa, and Kin Ki Utsuri with forehead shimi that resemble little "goggles". And these are ones in Japan's soft water.


      Our answers match perfectly as we are both saying exactly the same thing. We are saying that the shimmy's, which they are not, have nothing to do with hard water but every thing to do with the quality of the Koi. It is the quality of this Koi that makes it inevitable.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    9. #9
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nishikigoi21 View Post


      But aren't we supposed to select the brightest & shiniest one with strong sheen when choosing Metallics? Please advise.
      Is the head shimi something that could have been foreseen? I looked at a lot of Kujaku and avoided ones with black pecs that resembled motoguro. Although personally I think it looks cool, I feel they have a stronger tendency to go "Beni Ginga" sooner than ones with white or reddish fins.

      Price-wise it wasn't out of my league but it definitely was a big step-up for me from tosai-grade to my first nisai so I must say I'm a bit disappointed...I was hoping I could enjoy it's current look before darkening up.

      I must admit, I don't have patience so I was looking for a piece with nicely pronounced matsuba already. As you can see, the one on the far left has the best Matsuba, long-term wise but the pattern wasn't appealing(which is a big deal for me). And I'm more of a Beni Kujaku fan so I was eyeing the other two but I felt the middle one's beni on it's right side was too heavy.

      And in defense of the dealer; it all comes down to my final decision when buying Koi




      Bright and shiny has nothing to do with real sheen that is in the skin. This Kujaku does not have really nice sheen to it and there are indicators that it was going to end up with what you see now. The pecs fins, from the start, show signs of yellowing, the Beni is uneven, the scales are uneven and on the face you can see that the Hikari is very uneven and in some places washed out completely. You, yourself, said you picked this fish for pattern and I would not defend your dealer. Your dealer picked this fish for pattern as he knew it could be sold for more than it is worth because of that. Oh, and I must not forget, the black on the nose, this is also a major indicator that it would get it in other places.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    10. #10
      kevin32's Avatar
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      Sorry. I got you confused with a koi dealer. His name is close to yours on here. I haven't seen your fish.

    11. #11
      inazuma28 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by audioenvy View Post
      It's 3 years old (will be yonsai this fall) and Marusei is indeed the breeder. I actually hope the matsuba does not emerge through the beni but that may be considered a show demerit for all I know.
      May I ask what age and size you purchased her at? And what it took for you to get the koi that big in only 3 years. Is it just an exceptional koi genetically or is this growth rate common in your pond?

    12. #12
      audioenvy is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28 View Post
      May I ask what age and size you purchased her at? And what it took for you to get the koi that big in only 3 years. Is it just an exceptional koi genetically or is this growth rate common in your pond?
      I bought it last winter so I don't get any credit. It was already pretty big. It stayed at the dealer for a few months where it was fed and I've had it four months in my pond. It has always eaten very well. It started looking eggy so I brought it into the QT about a month ago to "starve" it for a while and it immediately dropped its eggs in the QT (what a mess that was). So I put it back out in the pond and it continues to eat a lot.

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