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  • Results 1 to 12 of 12

    Thread: pH crash

    1. #1
      hp is offline Supporting Member
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      pH crash

      Hello everyone,

      I am in this koi hobby for 2 full years now. I have seen pH crash on 2 people I know and killed a good number of their kois.

      1. The first person has had koi pond for like 10 years or more. Heís one of those just build a koi pond, feed them, enjoy the pond, thatís it. I donít think he ever checks water parameters. Last year pH crashed and killed like 50% of his kois. (I came over and measured water parameters for him and pH was around 6 as I recalled).
      2. The second person has had koi for more than 6 or 7 years. Heís knowledgeable but neglects sometimes. This year, pH crashed and killed a good number of his kois.

      Thanks to Koiphen, I have learned a lot about water quality and have been keeping up kH with baking soda. We are in the same area and the water source has very low kH. I have been telling them to maintain the kH with baking soda.

      Just for my understanding, knowledge, and know what to do if it ever happens to me or anyone I know, I have couple questions:
      1. What are the possible reasons for pH crash?
      2. What can we do to prevent it beside maintaining kH level?
      3. If pH crash occurs, what actions should we take?

      And just a friendly reminder for everyone, MAINTAIN your kH level. PH crash does not happen very often but itís a real disaster when it happens.

      Thanks,
      hp.

    2. #2
      Jonathan1982 is offline Member
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      I have the opposite problem, my PH is always high... KH is above 200 and GH is 3 drops.

    3. #3
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      The KH is “ carbonate hardness” , and the benificial bacteria in Our bio filters uses up the carbonate in the nitrification process. So We are keeping the KH up to feed the bio filters . There are other issues in play , for instance carbon dioxide from fish respiration and decay , That when mixed with water , creates carbonic acid , which being an acid , lowers PH

    4. #4
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      What are the possible reasons for pH crash?
      The level of acids coming into or created in the pond consumed the alkalinity. Basic chemistry.


      What can we do to prevent it beside maintaining kH level?
      Prevent acids from entering or being produced into the pond system. The biggest "add" of acid is likely acid rain that both dilutes the pond KH and consumes it. An outdoor pond with a roof has to deal with it. The creation of acids is a routine bio processes of digesting food, exercising, and respiration. Bottom line.....acids will happen.


      If pH crash occurs, what actions should we take?
      Adding baking soda to get pH north of 7 and KH well over 100ppm. Stop or slow way down on the feeding. Maybe lower stocking level. Watch the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate and be prepared for more and larger water changes until the bacteria colony has recovered.

    5. #5
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      For those people who regularly add baking soda, what's the effect of it on your plants. In arid areas, I'd expect the BS-laden water to burn plant leaves, like salt. Anyone have first-hand comments?

    6. #6
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      I add around 8 - 10 lbs of baking soda every 10 days during the season. Never a PH problem ever. I have close to 27,000 gallons if you are wondering why I add so much.

      Doug - out
      See Our Pond http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ond&highlight=

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    7. #7
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      The baking soda is really a very small % of the water being dumped on the lawn, garden, trees, etc, so will have little or no effect. May raise the pH slightly, like adding lime, which those of us in this part of the world have to do routinely anyway. For pond plants, I believe it is detrimental, as many of the nutrients, are not available at the higher pH. Once I got my pond KH up and the filters started taking care of the ammonia completely, I could no longer grow hyacinths, or water lettuce. Lilies and marginal plants will do fine.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    8. #8
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      So does algae

      A lot of rain can contribute acidic water to your pond. I always run out and add baking soda during a heavy rainfall. During routine water changes, the "baking soda" gets dumped on the lawn. I've never had a problem. My front yard looks like garbage, my back yard is lush and green.


      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."






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    9. #9
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      Good posts with the exception of acid rain in Seattle.

      The actual rain at my house is 7.2 - 7.4 Being close to and most of our weather comes from the ocean the rain does not pick up the CO2 that the rest of the country may experience farther East.

      hp: there are a couple of good koi clubs in the Seattle area. In addition to the knowledge here on Koiphen. The local club membership has Koi Health Advisors and several hundred years of koi keeping experience here in the Pacific Northwest. If you are interested let me know.

    10. #10
      hp is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by catfish whiskers View Post
      The KH is ď carbonate hardnessĒ , and the benificial bacteria in Our bio filters uses up the carbonate in the nitrification process. So We are keeping the KH up to feed the bio filters . There are other issues in play , for instance carbon dioxide from fish respiration and decay , That when mixed with water , creates carbonic acid , which being an acid , lowers PH
      Quote Originally Posted by MCAsan View Post
      What are the possible reasons for pH crash?
      The level of acids coming into or created in the pond consumed the alkalinity. Basic chemistry.


      What can we do to prevent it beside maintaining kH level?
      Prevent acids from entering or being produced into the pond system. The biggest "add" of acid is likely acid rain that both dilutes the pond KH and consumes it. An outdoor pond with a roof has to deal with it. The creation of acids is a routine bio processes of digesting food, exercising, and respiration. Bottom line.....acids will happen.


      If pH crash occurs, what actions should we take?
      Adding baking soda to get pH north of 7 and KH well over 100ppm. Stop or slow way down on the feeding. Maybe lower stocking level. Watch the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate and be prepared for more and larger water changes until the bacteria colony has recovered.
      Thanks you so much for the inputs. This is inline with the advices I gave the second person (thanks god) . For the first person, I did not know much last year so, I just advised him to change water. I gave the second person some SAFE to bind ammonia and told him to buy salt to bind nitrite if it occurs.

      Quote Originally Posted by montwila View Post
      Good posts with the exception of acid rain in Seattle.

      The actual rain at my house is 7.2 - 7.4 Being close to and most of our weather comes from the ocean the rain does not pick up the CO2 that the rest of the country may experience farther East.

      hp: there are a couple of good koi clubs in the Seattle area. In addition to the knowledge here on Koiphen. The local club membership has Koi Health Advisors and several hundred years of koi keeping experience here in the Pacific Northwest. If you are interested let me know.
      Thanks Monte. I was a membership of WK&WGS until last month. This reminds me to renew my membership. . I am embarrassed to say I was not able to make to a single club meeting even though it's not too far from my house. Busy life with 3 young kids is my excuse . I'll ask my friends if they want to join too. I have made a total upgrade to my filter system since last time you saw it. So, thing overall is better for me this year beside still dealing with green water and overstocking .

      hp.

    11. #11
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by hp View Post
      Thanks you so much for the inputs. This is inline with the advices I gave the second person (thanks god) . For the first person, I did not know much last year so, I just advised him to change water. I gave the second person some SAFE to bind ammonia and told him to buy salt to bind nitrite if it occurs.



      Thanks Monte. I was a membership of WK&WGS until last month. This reminds me to renew my membership. . I am embarrassed to say I was not able to make to a single club meeting even though it's not too far from my house. Busy life with 3 young kids is my excuse . I'll ask my friends if they want to join too. I have made a total upgrade to my filter system since last time you saw it. So, thing overall is better for me this year beside still dealing with green water and overstocking .

      hp.
      I've seen the same as Monte as far as acid rain... our weather comes from the Pacific Ocean as opposed
      to over 1000's of miles of populated areas. I suspect pH crashes around here are from some of the other
      ways that have been brought up.

      And don't feel bad, I've been a member of WK&WGS for years and never made a meeting either... but I'm
      on the Olympic Peninsula and it can be a long expensive trip. But I just like supporting the local club and enjoy
      the newsletter to see what my friends are up to. I'm going to try hard to make it to the show in September.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

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    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      For those people who regularly add baking soda, what's the effect of it on your plants. In arid areas, I'd expect the BS-laden water to burn plant leaves, like salt. Anyone have first-hand comments?
      None of my plants have seen tap water in many years, every drop of water for plants/lawn comes from pond (unless it rains). I use BS to keep KH above 150 so PH is always 8.3 (my tap water is barely 1 drop KH). My entire yard and around my pond is loaded with plants (pond video below in signature line) and they are lush, green, healthy and grow like crazy. Doing bi weekly water changes and filter cleaning I put approx. 3500 gal of pond water per month on plants and lawn.
      Happiness is adopting a mutt and my pond is FULL of Happiness....
      Deb

      My pond
      https://youtu.be/PR3Q2MInsQg

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