• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 16 of 16

    Thread: Fry color

    1. #1
      My2butterflies is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Location
      Southern MN
      Posts
      300

      Fry color

      For those that have raised multiple batches of fry, how does their color typically develop? And I say typically, because I know there are always variables.

      Example: If a 1Ē fry has yellow markings do they stay yellow, or is that just setting up to turn orange?

      If fry early on are pure white is there a good chance they will be platinum?

      If fry under 2Ē has messy sumi is there any hope it will clean up? Or should patterns be clean even at such a small size?

      Iíve been trying to find week by week pictures on culling and selection, but havenít found anything that answers my questions.

    2. #2
      Orlando is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2017
      Location
      Orlando
      Posts
      362
      Quote Originally Posted by My2butterflies View Post
      For those that have raised multiple batches of fry, how does their color typically develop? And I say typically, because I know there are always variables.

      Example: If a 1” fry has yellow markings do they stay yellow, or is that just setting up to turn orange?

      If fry early on are pure white is there a good chance they will be platinum?

      If fry under 2” has messy sumi is there any hope it will clean up? Or should patterns be clean even at such a small size?

      I’ve been trying to find week by week pictures on culling and selection, but haven’t found anything that answers my questions.
      Not to redirect this thread in a different direction but there's a person that's had a thread about Goshiki since 2014 in the pond forum, he has posted hundred of photos of fry from 2wks old till present, just saying there's lots of info that addresses most of your concerns.

    3. #3
      Japan Koi Trips's Avatar
      Japan Koi Trips is offline Koiphen Kid
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Amused
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Japan
      Posts
      29
      the Yellow is a key sign that it will turn orange and when early on Kohaku fry are completely white and the patterns develope over time.

    4. #4
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
      is watchin' em grow
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Oklahoma
      Posts
      815
      Quote Originally Posted by My2butterflies View Post
      For those that have raised multiple batches of fry, how does their color typically develop? And I say typically, because I know there are always variables.

      Example: If a 1Ē fry has yellow markings do they stay yellow, or is that just setting up to turn orange?

      If fry early on are pure white is there a good chance they will be platinum?

      If fry under 2Ē has messy sumi is there any hope it will clean up? Or should patterns be clean even at such a small size?

      Iíve been trying to find week by week pictures on culling and selection, but havenít found anything that answers my questions.
      A lot of this depends on what type the parents are. If the parents are kohaku, sanke, or showa, the yellow will likely turn orange, and maybe red. But if the parents are yellow (ogon, kigoi, or hariwake), the yellow will probably stay yellow.

      if the parents are metallic, the white fry will likely be platinum. If they are not metallic, the white fry will likely be shiro muji. Both are white, but one is metallic, and the other is not.

      Messy sumi probably won't clean up, but on some koi, the sumi could improve and fill in and make more solidified patches. Sumi patterns seem to be much more volatile than other color's patterns.
      Last edited by Matt24; 08-03-2018 at 08:29 PM.

    5. #5
      SimonW is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      28
      I rescued some eggs from hungry parents and today, 15 days later I have about 40 fries. They are now about 1/2 inch and most of them are solid yellow (cannot see any pattern), the rest are solid dark.

      Their mother is a tancho sanke, and their potential fathers are many, mostly sanke, but also one completely black and one ochiba.

      Will the yellow ones turn out to be overly orange/red or shiro muji? ? Will the dark ones most likely be overly black?
      Last edited by SimonW; 08-12-2018 at 05:44 PM.

    6. #6
      My2butterflies is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Location
      Southern MN
      Posts
      300
      I guess I’ll just have to wait and see. Since the fry I’m wondering about we’re from a flock spawn that I missed. Missed just meaning I never saw the koi spawn. I pulled eggs thinking they were from my goldies I had been watching on and off all day. The one on the right is one of the koi. I have no clue who the parents are. I have a a good number of the ones listed above. So I guess the yellow could go either way. Most likely orange I’d guess.
      Name:  364F423B-493D-4678-9B0F-F6BCF836A219.jpeg
Views: 124
Size:  98.2 KB
      The flock spawn seems to be a complete waste.

    7. #7
      Orlando is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2017
      Location
      Orlando
      Posts
      362
      Quote Originally Posted by SimonW View Post
      I rescued some eggs from hungry parents and today, 15 days later I have about 40 fries. They are now about 1/2 inch and most of them are solid yellow (cannot see any pattern), the rest are solid dark.

      Their mother is a tancho sanke, and their potential fathers are many, mostly sanke, but also one completely black and one ochiba.

      Will the yellow ones turn out to be overly orange/red or shiro muji? ? Will the dark ones most likely be overly black?
      The problem with a flock spawn is a crapshoot you will start seeing some colors soon but it will be a guess in your case you will probably have to wait atleast 6 months before you could make some desicions.

    8. #8
      ricshaw's Avatar
      ricshaw is offline Senior Member
      is who misses his Koi.
       
      Feeling:
      Bemused
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2016
      Location
      Southern California
      Posts
      1,480
      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      A lot of this depends on what type the parents are. If the parents are kohaku, sanke, or showa, the yellow will likely turn orange, and maybe red. But if the parents are yellow (ogon, kigoi, or hariwake), the yellow will probably stay yellow.
      if the parents are metallic, the white fry will likely be platinum. If they are not metallic, the white fry will likely be shiro muji. Both are white, but one is metallic, and the other is not.
      Messy sumi probably won't clean up, but on some koi, the sumi could improve and fill in and make more solidified patches. Sumi patterns seem to be much more volatile than other color's patterns.
      Yes, it depends on what the parent are. Showa breeders tend to keep the dark (black) fry and cull the yellow (white) fry.


      member

    9. #9
      ricshaw's Avatar
      ricshaw is offline Senior Member
      is who misses his Koi.
       
      Feeling:
      Bemused
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2016
      Location
      Southern California
      Posts
      1,480
      Quote Originally Posted by My2butterflies View Post
      I guess Iíll just have to wait and see. Since the fry Iím wondering about weíre from a flock spawn that I missed. Missed just meaning I never saw the koi spawn. I pulled eggs thinking they were from my goldies I had been watching on and off all day. The one on the right is one of the koi. I have no clue who the parents are. I have a a good number of the ones listed above. So I guess the yellow could go either way. Most likely orange Iíd guess.
      Name:  364F423B-493D-4678-9B0F-F6BCF836A219.jpeg
Views: 124
Size:  98.2 KB
      The flock spawn seems to be a complete waste.
      Think of breeding dogs... if you mix the different selected breeds, you reverse hundreds of years of selective breeding. The results are a return path to the original wild type.


      member

    10. #10
      My2butterflies is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Location
      Southern MN
      Posts
      300
      Yeah, I know I’m not going to see anything great from these guys. I was hoping maybe for one or two that would at least be interesting though. Maybe I’ll have better luck with the second spawn. I already have a few fantails I’m happy with, but have yet to see if any of the koi will be anything to hang onto. I’ll hold some over the winter and toss them outside come spring. Maybe then by summer I can weed through them.

    11. #11
      My2butterflies is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Location
      Southern MN
      Posts
      300
      @Matt24 Here is the fry I was talking about. Name:  9DDA03C9-74E6-40ED-AE44-7C889F91E59C.jpg
Views: 85
Size:  70.8 KBName:  6377ECE3-725B-4A70-A381-5AC4DFE20BB2.jpg
Views: 83
Size:  58.8 KBName:  6B017295-1E42-4819-BEAD-A4F35F32CC53.jpg
Views: 84
Size:  61.8 KB

      You are right, you can’t tell by looking down at it that it has an issue, but from the side it is a crazy looking mess. I also think this one has a slightly bent spine. Is this due to handling the eggs wrong? I had a lot of deformities this first spawn.
      Does this look like the ones you had? Or is it most likely that this is the product of a crossing causing deformed fry?

    12. #12
      Orlando is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2017
      Location
      Orlando
      Posts
      362
      When you are looking at fry this size the simpler way to do it is look at the proportions of the body starting at the snout, this koi is missing that and it will stay like that in this case it could just be a birth/hatch defect.

    13. #13
      My2butterflies is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Location
      Southern MN
      Posts
      300
      It is disproportionate. And sadly I just found out my catfish ate it. Then again, the reason I had it with the catfish was because it is with a group of fry that are either deformed or just a mess pattern wise. It was just so odd looking I was going to grow it out a bit more, but I’m sure this is for the best since it did have a back issue.

      I do hope to avoid having more like it if I can. So far the second spawn doesn’t seem to have any like this one in particular, but they are still small yet.

    14. #14
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
      is watchin' em grow
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Oklahoma
      Posts
      815
      Quote Originally Posted by My2butterflies View Post
      @Matt24 Here is the fry I was talking about. ... Does this look like the ones you had? Or is it most likely that this is the product of a crossing causing deformed fry?
      Last year I had some fry that looked like that. Some were worse, some a little better, but still bad, and some just had crooked mouths, off-center. But the most common problem last year was the downward turned mouth with pinched cheeks and short snout, like this one from this year pictured below.

      Name:  showa fry day 74 bad mouth 8-18-2018.JPG
Views: 72
Size:  44.8 KB

      Almost all of my fry from 2017 were as bad as this one or worse. That spawn was a total loss. But it seems to vary greatly from year to year, even with the same parent koi, and I know not why.

      I used the same female and 2 of the same 3 males in my 2018 spawn. So far, there are a significant number of such facial deformities, perhaps 25%, but nothing like the 2017 disaster.

      I also used the same female and the same two males in 2016, and did not see any such facial deformities. There were very few fry in that spawn, but enough to give me hope to retry that group of adults in 2018.

      After all that, I do not know what causes it. Like some other characteristics, it can vary a lot from one spawn to the next, even with the same parents.

    15. #15
      My2butterflies is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Location
      Southern MN
      Posts
      300
      Thank you for taking the time to reply and for the picture.
      It’s such an odd deformity, I wish I knew what caused it. I’ll try to make a point of recording as much as I can next year to see how things turn out. With how many deformities I was seeing I was pretty sure I mishandled the eggs or something.

    16. #16
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
      is watchin' em grow
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Oklahoma
      Posts
      815
      Quote Originally Posted by My2butterflies View Post
      ... I wish I knew what caused it. Iíll try to make a point of recording as much as I can next year to see how things turn out. With how many deformities I was seeing I was pretty sure I mishandled the eggs or something.
      My usual practice for spawning is to not handle the eggs at all until after hatching. I have a little pond just for this purpose, where the spawning, hatching, and raising of the young fry all happen.

      This year with the roughly 25% deformities, and last year, which was a total loss, I used this method, not handling the eggs at all. But 2016 was different in that my mishandling of eggs (to make a long story short) resulted in very few fry even hatching. Yet as I mentioned above, I saw no such facial deformities in that spawn. So I am not seeing any correlation between the deformities and mishandling of eggs.

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •