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    Thread: Are UV's Now Seen as a Crutch?

    1. #1
      icu2's Avatar
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      Are UV's Now Seen as a Crutch?

      It seems like there's a lot of talk lately about the superiority of a system without a UV.
      Is there a concensus now that if you have one it's a crutch because you don't have a good
      enough bio filter system?

      My pond season in Washington usually consists of 3 or 4 months. For the first 3 years I used my
      UV's religiously and always had nice clear water. If I turned them off the water would be pea soup
      in a couple weeks. About the 4th year I left them off and they remained clear.

      But I see them as simply a tool to be installed and used at will. I have spare bulbs in the closet
      ready at a moments notice. My pond season is so short I don't want to wait patiently for the water
      to clear, which may happen in 2 days or 2 months. Only Mother Nature seems to know. For those
      first few years it definitely made my ponding more enjoyable, which let's face it, is what it's all about.

      Was my filtration system lacking? It has changed over the years but to many I think they'd
      say it got worse: SC > 2 - MB's and 2nd circuit skimmer > UV > s/g filter; and now is sieve > bead
      and 2nd circuit still skimmer > UV > s/g filter. But I've still, for whatever reason, not had to turn the
      UV on.

      I'm not trying for a debate about what combination of filters will provide crystal clear water with out a UV
      because honestly I don't know... but this post is only to give the abused UV a shout out for doing a thankless
      job at a moments notice. I'm not sorry I installed mine and know it's there if needed. I wouldn't
      hesitate to tell new ponders the same.

      --Steve



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    2. #2
      hp is offline Senior Member
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      Steve,

      How long does your pond expose to sun a day? My pond build completed in August 2016, so, it's in its second year. I am battling with the algae now. I have 57W on my ~4000 gallon pond with somewhat overstocked fish load. I thought I burnt my UV light for not turning it off during water change. I replaced it and still green . I made a lot upgrade to my filter last month. So, I am patiently waiting to see if it improves as my filter matures. From what I have read in here, it may take up to 3 years for a pond to fully mature. So, I'll wait until next year to decide if I need to upgrade my UV again.

      hp.

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      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      My UV is adjustable in output from 50% to 100%. I was running it at 50% in the Spring, with the sunny weather we’ve had over here for the past three weeks; it’s now on 100%. Without it, the water goes green quite quickly, so yes, I’d rather have it than not.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

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      With excellent mechanical filtration and also plenty of biofiltration I have not needed a uv since I installed the rdf qmd shower. 1st intex was I'm full sun 100 degree day and I had about 30% of it shaded. I built up lots of carpet algae but water was always clear. Now pond is on my deck with overhead shading and using the profidrum. Little carpet algae and pond is crystal clear. Only about 3 months mature and media is about 1 year old. So I believe a UV is needed sometimes but is also a bandaid. Algae can be your friend at times. Kill it off and I wonder what happens to your nitrate levels

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by hp View Post
      Steve,

      How long does your pond expose to sun a day? My pond build completed in August 2016, so, it's in its second year. I am battling with the algae now. I have 57W on my ~4000 gallon pond with somewhat overstocked fish load. I thought I burnt my UV light for not turning it off during water change. I replaced it and still green . I made a lot upgrade to my filter last month. So, I am patiently waiting to see if it improves as my filter matures. From what I have read in here, it may take up to 3 years for a pond to fully mature. So, I'll wait until next year to decide if I need to upgrade my UV again.

      hp.
      When it's here they're in full sun from about 10am to 6pm.
      I don't want to claim I have a clue as to how much or what UV is needed. I just bought the one
      that was suggested to me by a vendor friend, Bill Putnam. I did put a
      bypass on both of the ones I have and that seems to let me dial in the amount of flow through the UV.
      I've only read though that the suggested minimum was 1 watt per 1000 gallons. I use an Empreror Aquatics
      40 watt UV for my upper 3500 gallon pond and it worked well when it was on, for what it's worth.
      --Steve



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    6. #6
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      With excellent mechanical filtration and also plenty of biofiltration I have not needed a uv since I installed the rdf qmd shower. 1st intex was I'm full sun 100 degree day and I had about 30% of it shaded. I built up lots of carpet algae but water was always clear. Now pond is on my deck with overhead shading and using the profidrum. Little carpet algae and pond is crystal clear. Only about 3 months mature and media is about 1 year old. So I believe a UV is needed sometimes but is also a bandaid. Algae can be your friend at times. Kill it off and I wonder what happens to your nitrate levels
      The 10' Intex holds about 1000 gallons. It's admirable to have an RDF and shower on that small pool but
      not sure how many could do the same.
      And I can live with it being a "band-aid". If I had a choice when I'm hosting a party in the backyard and
      mother nature suddenly throws a fit and my ponds turn into green stew, I'm opting for the band-aid every time.
      I'm hoping that if you cut yourself on the job, you allow yourself to bleed all over the customers tile and
      don't stoop to the level of getting a band-aid.
      --Steve



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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      When it's here they're in full sun from about 10am to 6pm.
      I don't want to claim I have a clue as to how much or what UV is needed. I just bought the one
      that was suggested to me by a vendor friend, Bill Putnam. I did put a
      bypass on both of the ones I have and that seems to let me dial in the amount of flow through the UV.
      I've only read though that the suggested minimum was 1 watt per 1000 gallons. I use an Empreror Aquatics
      40 watt UV for my upper 3500 gallon pond and it worked well when it was on, for what it's worth.
      Steve did you mean 10 watts per 1,000?

    8. #8
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Steve did you mean 10 watts per 1,000?
      Hey, I'm the WWKC treasurer. I'm good with numbers.

      Yes... thank you.
      --Steve



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      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      I had 44 koi in a 12 foot intex with no uv. Excessive nutrients and ammonia seem to fuel single cell algae. I'm not trying to be mr know it all it just sharing my results. A intex at 2 feet deep is also prone to high temps.

      When I cut myself I do put on a bandaid. If i started up a new pond and water was to green to see the koi then I would fire up the uv. Maybe in 2 years I'll have my real pond done and will shoot for no uv

    10. #10
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Hey, I'm the WWKC treasurer. I'm good with numbers.

      Yes... thank you.
      I was scratching my head for a sec

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      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Hey, I'm the WWKC treasurer. I'm good with numbers.

      Yes... thank you.
      Do I need to check the new treasures report. Lol j/k Steve.

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      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      I feel people panic on new pond syndrome. Start the pond with a UV and most likely you will rely on it for a few years. I've always left my uv light off at first. You might get some green water but this is part of cycling. Another member has shared that a friend did not water change his pond at first 3 months. With string algae especially water changes will actually fuel it more. Peroxide seems to work well for this.

    13. #13
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      I don't see it as a bandaid at all. Just another tool to clear water. I don't buy into the idea that if you have green water that you necessarily have excess ammonia. There are many nutrients that can fuel algae and not all are taken care of by conventional pond filtration or are harmful to the koi. Not everyone's water source is the same. One could have some phosphate in it and that can fuel algae but isn't harmful to the koi. Should you try to filter out the phosphate or just stick a UV on it and be done with it?

    14. #14
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      Quote Originally Posted by rcmike View Post
      I don't see it as a bandaid at all. Just another tool to clear water. I don't buy into the idea that if you have green water that you necessarily have excess ammonia. There are many nutrients that can fuel algae and not all are taken care of by conventional pond filtration or are harmful to the koi. Not everyone's water source is the same. One could have some phosphate in it and that can fuel algae but isn't harmful to the koi. Should you try to filter out the phosphate or just stick a UV on it and be done with it?
      Carbon filter and remove the phosphates with constant flow. Green water often consumes ammonia and is why it comes about in the first place. I'm obviously not a fan of uv light if not needed.

      When you strip excessive nutrients you will also see water plants will die off. If rather them die off and know my water doesn't have excessive nutrients what do plants thrive on? I added nutrients to my hydroponics


      Mike I appreciate your Input and not saying I'm right. I do like to mix thoughts etc...
      Last edited by kevin32; 07-16-2018 at 08:44 PM.

    15. #15
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Do I need to check the new treasures report. Lol j/k Steve.
      Always.
      --Steve



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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Always.
      Looks good to me. Could use a + on PayPal

    17. #17
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      My 3800 gallon pond was lacking mechanical and bio. Even with a 80 watt uv my plants thrived. My nitrates were over 60 ppm but my water was clear. I also got ulcers alot. Clear water is not always healthy water. A uv can hide this though

    18. #18
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Carbon filter and remove the phosphates with constant flow. Green water often consumes ammonia and is why it comes about in the first place. I'm obviously not a fan of uv light if not needed.

      When you strip excessive nutrients you will also see water plants will die off. If rather them die off and know my water doesn't have excessive nutrients what do plants thrive on? I added nutrients to my hydroponics


      Mike I appreciate your Input and not saying I'm right. I do like to mix thoughts etc...
      So what if you're on a well and phosphates are in the source water?
      Flow through doesn't always solve the problem for everyone. We're not all on municipal
      water supplies.


      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Looks good to me. Could use a + on PayPal
      If it were only true. We're working on it.
      --Steve



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      I believe that a UV is probably not needed, but it is nice to be able to see the fish during the time the pond is going through the cycle. By the time the pond is 2 or 3 years old, if there is adequate bio filtration, it probably is of little or no use, if the pond is kept running year round. If the pond is turned off and the pump stored for the winter, then the bio has too much lag to keep the pond clear during the spring startup. So, is it a band-aid, or is it a necessity, that depends on the sufficiency of the filters and the operation of the pond.
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      This thread touches on something that's a bit of a hot button for me: people taking credit for some positive aspect of a pond, yet not understanding why it's happening. I think we're all happy and maybe a bit envious of those pond owners who, for whatever reason, don't need UV. A humble owner has my respect when he says he uses no UV, has clear water, but isn't sure why. But when the subtext is that its due to the owners superior knowledge - which is rarely if ever shared - it really rubs me the wrong way.

      Right now I'm preparing to switch from a moving-bed setup to a shower, which currently has a 120W UV setup. If we switch it off, in just a few weeks, the water starts clouding up with floating algae. In an effort to trim electrical usage I'm doing everything I can to maximize the efficiency of the pond system, and a low-profile shower will help, drawing less power than the moving bed pump + aeration pump. I've seen quite a few claims that with a shower, UV is not needed, so it'll be an interesting experiment to see what happens. After the shower is established, the UV will be turned off and we'll see. If it stays clear, I can claim it's all due to my superior knowledge of which I may or may not share!
      Last edited by kimini; 07-16-2018 at 09:26 PM.

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