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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
    Results 21 to 34 of 34

    Thread: Lost 13 kois in 1 week

    1. #21
      ademink's Avatar
      ademink is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
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      San Jose:
      Champion Nishikigoi has Proform-C
      3395 Keaton Loop
      San Jose, CA 95121
      Phone: 408-528-0821
      Fax: 408-528-0623

      Genki Nishikigoi does also
      1850 S 10th Street #14

      San Jose, CA 95112

      Phone: (408) 295-4500

      Fax: (408) 295-4501

      genkikoi@hotmail.com
      Andrea
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    2. #22
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ademink View Post
      I would highly recommend removing the melafix from the water. It does not cure anything and actually costs the Lois hills, as it is an oil.

      You can use BSDT as recommended above, Proform, Terminate...any malachite green and formalin mixture.
      This is autocorrect for coats the koi gills.

      Melafix is not a good product to be adding and I agree, get it out of the water.
      Did your air pump arrive?
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

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    3. #23
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      1) history - check, aketchy from the pond sitter, Op what do you mean “established pond” how long have you had it? Any past sicknest/deaths before all this. How is the ‘rescue’ fish doing?
      2) water parameters - check except KH, pending ph daily fluctuations - although this would not tell us ph swing problems prior to pp treatments. Do you test for ph swings regularly?
      3) picture / video/ of pond/ water/ filters / fish behaviour - pending, but some great pics of dead fish
      4) physical exam of remaining koi - pending, suggest clove oil for sedation, pics of skin, gills etc. - pending OP also post #13 - how long have you had this fish and is it always been this skinny.
      5) scrape and scope - pending
      6) diagnosis - pending, but “signs and symptoms makes me think of costia” - RTB
      7) Treatment - pending, treated already with pp but for what ??? big no no IMO - could have knocked back filters/good bacteria resulting in further compromise/deaths, oxidize gills, accidents etc. Melafix which can “coat gills” I would concentrate of 1-2, 3-5.
      8) Reassessment - pending
      Last edited by KoiRun; 07-10-2018 at 12:27 PM.
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    4. #24
      ademink's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn View Post
      This is autocorrect for coats the koi gills.

      Melafix is not a good product to be adding and I agree, get it out of the water.
      Did your air pump arrive?
      LOL Thanks Marilyn! Poor Lois...
      Andrea
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    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by ademink View Post
      LOL Thanks Marilyn! Poor Lois...


      We're on the same page but not everyone speaks autocorrect.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

      I'll say something when I feel I have something worth saying. I'm not a fan of flapping my lips just because they are there.

    6. #26
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      OP, to answer your question about the gill covers, they should feel "hard" because they are made of cartilage. On females, the surface is normally smooth and slimy, same as the top of the head. On males in breeding season, the surface will feel sandpapery. The whole body can feel sandpapery with certain parasites.

      Do you belong to the ZNA Norcal club? There are several people in the San Jose area who could help you either by phone or in person. Go to koiorganisationinternational.org and scroll down to the bottom of the home page, there's a list of CKKs (Certified Koi Keepers) by state.
      Mary

    7. #27
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      1) history - i have had the pond for about 5 years now, no prior deaths
      2) water parameters - i never have really checked for PH as i do a 30% water change about once every two weeks
      3) picture / video/ of pond/ water/ filters / fish behaviour - Soon! But my pond is crystal clear (probably from all those recent water changes)
      4) physical exam of remaining koi - subtle, just swimming slowly possibly because of melafix (will do water change soon as you all suggested); the fish had always been skinny for some reason over the last few years
      5) scrape and scope - will need to learn how to do this
      6) diagnosis - i have been researching and it may be costia

    8. #28
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      I am so sorry for the loss of your fish, I know it must be devastating. I agree with many of the above, I think the PP damaged their gills beyond repair and they died from oxygen deprivation. The gills looks maroon, like nitrite poisoning to me, not the bloody red they should be. I never go above 2 ppm for 4 hours. I've never let a PP treatment go on overnight when I can't watch to see what color the water is. And, just in case I have a color issue with my eyes, I have strips that can tell the exact amount of potassium permanganate left in the pond. I have done as many as 5 low dose (1 ppm) potassium permanganate treatments in a day. However, I know exactly how many gallons I have, and exactly how much PP to add. It's also flammable, carcinogenic, and can cause blindness, so proper knowledge of its use, and gloves/goggles should be employed.

      Why do you think you have a parasite? If everything was fine before this person nuked your pond with PP, then I say it killed your fish. If you PP a pond that doesn't have organic material in it to destroy, then it's going to go to the next organic thing in there, the fish. It has to deplete itself on something, and I am guessing your fish were it. He should not have dosed your pond without your permission; just because he does it in HIS system, doesn't mean it's the right thing for your system. He may be overstocked, with fish creating a lot of waste (organics). He may not have known your pond's exact gallons, and overdosed the proper amount.

      If it were me, I would continue to do the water changes, and not do any treatments at all until the water parameters are under control. Maybe contact someone from the local koi club, as suggested above, especially before doing any treatment. I would want a scrape and scope done to my fish to know the proper treatment protocol, if necessary. Your fish are already stressed, more shotgun treatments could cause more harm than good.

      BTW- you CAN overdose Prime/SAFE; you don't want to go over 5x the recommended dosage. I doubt overdosing will kill your fish, but it may cause a fish that's on the cusp to go over the edge and die. I have had fish suffer ill effects from dechlorinator overdosage-- it's more neurological in nature, also causes buoyancy issues. Just saying, so that you add the right amount when you're doing the water changes. Also, note that Prime/SAFE stays active in the water for 48-72 hours, so no need to add each day for controlling the ammonia--just add it every 2-3 days. OR when doing a water change.


      Nancy


      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."






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    9. #29
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      1) history - 5 years and no deaths. You've been doing well. Something was very different this year and I think this your going on vacation. Is this summer the only time you added fish. How long did you go on vacation for? I can't believe your keeper treated your pond without your consent! Wondering if he panicked. What were your instructions? With weather being this warm it is not unusual for koi to take refuge at the bottom acting like 'isolating' themselves. Are the added fish still alive? Are they eating now? How many fish do you have left and what size?
      2) parameters - Ph stability is very important. All pond inhabitants, bio in filters, fish etc can't tolerate much fluctuations in this regard. Water clarity in this scenario is a good thing, but I hope you have some sort of cover so fish can be sheltered from sunlight and predators especially in time they are not well. Easy picking for predators. I would continue doing higher than usual water changer and make sure the bottom is clean. Cut food down drastically, 1-2 pellets per fish if at all, only to see how they react.
      3) video / pic/ of pond/ water / filters / fish behaviour - In video drop a few pellets and see how they react.
      4) physical exam of remaining koi/ sedation - can probably hold for now since fish are seen swimming around, and if you think fish and bio-filter is recovering. This can be stressful for the experienced. Pending pick/video. Also look close for any sores, scale lifting, redness, eye swelling or sinking on each fish.
      5) scrape and scope - I would hold for now if fish are recovering since it too can further stress the fish if inexperienced. Pending pic/video and further history.
      6) diagnosis - pending, Costa is best diagnosed by microscopy by someone experienced.
      7) treatment - supportive for now imo - increased water changes, aeration, monitor
      Last edited by KoiRun; 07-11-2018 at 12:23 AM.
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    10. #30
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      I feel like the PP did do some damage to their gills. I did a water change two days ago (20%) and did a water test yesterday around 7pm (75 degrees outside) and the parameters were;

      Ammonia: 0.25 (is this because theres some melafix in the water mixed with Prime?) - i didnt do a big water change because i dont want to put them in shock so ill let the melafix slowly disperse on its own/do small water changes
      nitrite: 0
      Nitrate: 15
      PH: 8.3/8.4 (why is this so high? was it because of the water change?)
      GH: 17
      KH: 11 (green), 12 (yellow)


      The fishes are all eating when being fed medicinal food. They are swimming, some just sit in the corner. I have lots of oxygen pumping in.

    11. #31
      ademink's Avatar
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      Prime will cause a false positive test for ammonia. If you are using the prime and dosing for full volume, you are ok. Seachem sells a cheap widget called an ammonia alert disk which gives you accurate harmful ammonia readings. Your pH is fine. Your KH is at a great level and so your pH has stabilized at around 8.3.
      Andrea
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    12. #32
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      The Prime may be giving you a trace ammonia reading. I'm glad you've got more air in there. That should help them with the gill damage. It doesn't surprise me some are still isolating but it's an improvement from how they were originally? As I recall, all of them were isolating at the beginning. Some may have more gill damage than others and take longer to recover.

      The pH is fine. Your KH and GH are good so as long as the pH is stable, don't worry about it.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

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    13. #33
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      Just curious, but what is the significance of sunken eyes?
      TurtleMommy

    14. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by TurtleMommy View Post
      Just curious, but what is the significance of sunken eyes?
      Sunken eyes is often accompanied with a notched nose appearance and anorexia. These symptoms are common signs of KHV and costia. Pathophysiolgy of the dehydration is related sodium ion exhange failure of the gills/kidneys during gill/kidney failure whereby the fish is unable to regulate osmotic pressures.
      Last edited by KoiRun; 07-14-2018 at 04:10 PM.
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