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  • Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
    Results 21 to 40 of 42

    Thread: Sanke or Showa?

    1. #21
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      Sanke

    2. #22
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      Thank you all for your insights and comments.

      Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
      Where did this Koi come from?
      I am owner #3 of this koi, which has been passed around. Owner #2 and owner #1 each say it came from Kleinholz Koi Farm in Oklahoma. For what it's worth, I asked owner #1, who bought it directly from the farm, "Did it come from a Sanke or Showa spawn?" He said "Sanke". That said, I don't know if a koi necessarily has to be what it came from. It may be more, "It is what it is."

    3. #23
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      American tri color. LOL.

    4. #24
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      To me some of its sumi is below the lateral line. It also has a dot of black on its head. Any black on the head is supposed to be showa..

    5. #25
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Open its mouth.

      Is the roof of the mouth black?

      Garfield.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rich8888ri View Post
      To me some of its sumi is below the lateral line. It also has a dot of black on its head. Any black on the head is supposed to be showa..
      Sumi on the head does not mean showa. it never has. There are many examples of sanke with sumi on the head.
      Attached Images Attached Images     
      Last edited by inazuma28; 08-06-2018 at 02:21 PM.

    7. #27
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      Sanke. The sumi is poor quality Sanke sumi. Tejima, sumi on the head and the color inside the mouth have nothing to do with it. I wish these so called criteria would go away, as they confuse more than help. Sanke sumi looks like little chips of confetti put together. Showa sumi appears continuous, like a sheet.
      Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      Open its mouth.

      Is the roof of the mouth black?

      Garfield.


      Some Showa display Sumi IN the mouth.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    9. #29
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      I changed my mind after going back and looking at all the pictures, sanke.
      Last edited by Gene; 08-16-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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    10. #30
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      I thought this one was very confusing so I sent the pictures to two very prominent breeders in Japan. They both were 100% on the Sumi being Showa Sumi, which is what I was thinking, but the body is confusing. One of the breeders said it was, hands down, a Showa because of the Sumi. The other one said that even though it has Showa Sumi it has the body of a Sanke but still called it a Showa.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      I thought this one was very confusing so I sent the pictures to two very prominent breeders in Japan. They both were 100% on the Sumi being Showa Sumi, which is what I was thinking, but the body is confusing. One of the breeders said it was, hands down, a Showa because of the Sumi. The other one said that even though it has Showa Sumi it has the body of a Sanke but still called it a Showa.
      Thanks for the deep dig Russ!

    12. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      Open its mouth.

      Is the roof of the mouth black?

      Garfield.
      With my pond being 20 feet wide, it is nearly impossible to net a koi in daylight when the lighting is good for photos. So I tried using zoom to get photos during feeding, which is not easy on a moving target. So it is a little hard to tell from these shots, but if there is black in the mouth, I am not seeing it.

      Name:  sanke-showa 9-2-2018 mouth a.JPG
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    13. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      With my pond being 20 feet wide, it is nearly impossible to net a koi in daylight when the lighting is good for photos. So I tried using zoom to get photos during feeding, which is not easy on a moving target. So it is a little hard to tell from these shots, but if there is black in the mouth, I am not seeing it.

      Name:  sanke-showa 9-2-2018 mouth a.JPG
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      The last photo is clear as a bell there no black in the mouth

    14. #34
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Sumi in the mouth of some Showa gives the keeper some idea of how strong the Sumi is in that particular fish.

      It's not likely to lose it over time.

      So I have been led to believe.

      Garfield
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    15. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      I thought this one was very confusing so I sent the pictures to two very prominent breeders in Japan. They both were 100% on the Sumi being Showa Sumi, which is what I was thinking, but the body is confusing. One of the breeders said it was, hands down, a Showa because of the Sumi. The other one said that even though it has Showa Sumi it has the body of a Sanke but still called it a Showa.
      well then lol. I would have bet my bottom dollar it would be benched as a sanke.

    16. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      With my pond being 20 feet wide, it is nearly impossible to net a koi in daylight when the lighting is good for photos. So I tried using zoom to get photos during feeding, which is not easy on a moving target. So it is a little hard to tell from these shots, but if there is black in the mouth, I am not seeing it.

      Name:  sanke-showa 9-2-2018 mouth a.JPG
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Size:  42.8 KB Name:  sanke-showa 9-2-2018 mouth b.JPG
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Size:  39.0 KB Name:  sanke-showa 9-2-2018 mouth c.JPG
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Size:  20.3 KB Name:  sanke-showa 9-2-2018 mouth d.JPG
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      Do you all think that because there is no Sumi in the mouth that it is not a Showa?


      People think that Sumi on the head of a Sanke means that it is not a Sanke.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    17. #37
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28 View Post
      well then lol. I would have bet my bottom dollar it would be benched as a sanke.
      Have you watched the koi show benchers look at each other confused, and then upset the keeper by entering the fish in the wrong variety?

      With no chance of a win.

      Garfield.
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    18. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      Do you all think that because there is no Sumi in the mouth that it is not a Showa? ...
      I appreciate all of the interesting discussion and varying opinions. In my unorthodox opinion, it would seem that the trait that presents that largest visual impact should be the primary indicator of variety. In this case, the shape and location of the sumi, long bands stretching rather low on the body rather than spots mainly on top give this koi more of a showa appearance from the first glance. The amount of black on the head or in the mouth are indicators, but minor in light of the body sumi which is less subtle.

      Were it not for the information in my earlier comment, copied below, I don't know that I would have ever thought of this koi as perhaps not being a showa:

      "I am owner #3 of this koi, which has been passed around. Owner #2 and owner #1 each say it came from Kleinholz Koi Farm in Oklahoma. For what it's worth, I asked owner #1, who bought it directly from the farm, "Did it come from a Sanke or Showa spawn?" He said "Sanke"."

      Thanks again for the feedback.

    19. #39
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Enter it in the next koi show and let the benching team decide.

      Garfield
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    20. #40
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      I was thinking sanke at first, but I'm thinking showa. No sumi in the mouth+pattern+sumi on the head vs tejima. One big flaw is more plausible than three medium ones.

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