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    Thread: How much shower bio media for 12k gallon pond

    1. #21
      KoiRun's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by audioenvy View Post
      It's a HUNCH, definitely not a theory. Relativity is a theory.
      Hypothesis really.
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin



    2. #22
      audioenvy is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      Hypothesis really.
      Yes but the document referenced calls it a HUNCH in all caps so I used that terminology.

    3. #23
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      you can have green water with RDF also whether be it 70 microns or 50 microns (due to bio film). We have seen this happen with Vipertom and Rainblood. Moreover, if I remember correctly those two ponds were well established.

    4. #24
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      Here you go 100% guarantee to stop green water without the use of a UV giving you clear water...
      I think it's got to do with a particular wavelength of light that they all need. Without it they are toast.

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    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      Here you go 100% guarantee to stop green water without the use of a UV giving you clear water...
      I think it's got to do with a particular wavelength of light that they all need. Without it they are toast.

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      How abt moonlight? LED light? flashlight? candlelight?

    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan1982 View Post
      How abt moonlight? LED light? flashlight? candlelight?
      Maybe UFO's are visiting Your pond in the middle of the night

    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by onlycrimson View Post
      So in the planted aquarium world there was a historic huge debate about nitrates and algae growth. After many tests and anecdotal evidence it is now the prevailing theory that that algae needs such small amounts of nitrates that there is no way you could starve them out (aka 0 nitrates on a test kit doesn't mean much) and that the existence of nitrates does not promote algae growth in any significant way. What stops the algae growing is something else, but it's not clear what it is. For instance when i had my 10 gallon planted aquarium with a high amount of LED light on it 7 hours a day I was adding at least 30ppm of nitrate a week, among other fertilizers, and the water was sparkling clear and the plants were happy. Look at any championship planted tanks and they are getting lots of fertilizer directly into them and lots of light.
      One of the studies I saw focused on phosphates and found that starving the phosphates slowed algae but plants were more efficient and didn't need as much. All that fails in ponds though because they are open systems. While we can try to keep them clean of any extraneous materials there will always be external inputs outside our control. Even rain will add some nutrients we don't expect not to mention things like pollen and blowing dust/dirt. Pond systems have to be designed large enough to also handle the unintentional/uncontrollable sources of nutrients and debris in addition to what we purposely add in the form of food. This is also why every pond is different, because every location is different. Just my two cents worth..........

      Bill

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by audioenvy View Post
      Yes but the document referenced calls it a HUNCH in all caps so I used that terminology.
      Ah I see. The author doesn't use the right terminology either. What he calls "my theory" should have been called 'hypothesis.' It's a very outdated article imo. What he called "facts," which is pretty bold to say in the first place, is easily disproven today (and probably back then too).
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin



    9. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      Ah I see. The author doesn't use the right terminology either. What he calls "my theory" should have been called 'hypothesis.' It's a very outdated article imo. What he called "facts," which is pretty bold to say in the first place, is easily disproven today (and probably back then too).
      So what is your 'hypothesis' for all these ponds with clear water and no UV?

    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
      So what is your 'hypothesis' for all these ponds with clear water and no UV?
      I agree , KoiRun , please teach Us

    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
      So what is your 'hypothesis' for all these ponds with clear water and no UV?
      It seems to be a Koiphen theory really as wfhoffmaniii reiterated - "every pond is different." So there will be ponds with clear water and no UV.
      The op asks how do "you" deal with green water without a UV? You seem so have ducked the question and may be open to a lot of hypothesizing.
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin



    12. #32
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      He doesn't have to know the answer to show that the old reasoning is wrong. It just shows that we don't fully understand yet what it is that allows clear water with no UV. The only way I know for certain to have no green algae growth is to have no light at all, which is not a way to keep a pond. We know that certain principles seem to help, like keeping the water well oxygenated and free from rotting detritus.

    13. #33
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      While I agree that Norm's article does not give a "clear" answer (pun intended) , is it possible to narrow down any mystery causes of green water algae after eliminating most of what We previously believed to be it's causes ?
      Is it something in the water supply that We do not normally test for ?
      I'm been with the belief that large quantities of aerobic bio filtration compete with the algae for it's food sources , because that's what I've allways read , and because that's what I have , and I've never had GWA after adding shower filters.
      But after Vipertom went through a serious algae bloom , I have to question My beliefs.
      In Tom's case , He has massive amounts of filtration , Profidrums, shower filters , flowfriend pumps , light stocking levels , and a pond that's well seasoned for many years .
      Last edited by catfish whiskers; 06-14-2018 at 06:50 PM.

    14. #34
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      I have no idea what the answer is but I'll toss this out there for food for thought...
      I have two ponds, one initially used a SC and 2 mb's and the other a sort of home made sieve
      and a shower. Both turned green and I added a UV to each one to keep the water clear on the
      first year. I bought bulbs for each one on the second year. On the third year I never replaced the
      bulb but just left them on for whatever reason. After the third year with the same bulb I turned
      them both off and never used them again but the water has never (knock on wood) gone green
      after the first couple years. No clue why.

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    15. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      I have no idea what the answer is but I'll toss this out there for food for thought...
      I have two ponds, one initially used a SC and 2 mb's and the other a sort of home made sieve
      and a shower. Both turned green and I added a UV to each one to keep the water clear on the
      first year. I bought bulbs for each one on the second year. On the third year I never replaced the
      bulb but just left them on for whatever reason. After the third year with the same bulb I turned
      them both off and never used them again but the water has never (knock on wood) gone green
      after the first couple years. No clue why.

      In both ponds, right?

    16. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      In both ponds, right?
      Yes. And just to add, the two ponds are connected in the summer and run independently
      in the winter. But neither have been green after those first couple years.
      --Steve
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    17. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      I have no idea what the answer is but I'll toss this out there for food for thought...
      I have two ponds, one initially used a SC and 2 mb's and the other a sort of home made sieve
      and a shower. Both turned green and I added a UV to each one to keep the water clear on the
      first year. I bought bulbs for each one on the second year. On the third year I never replaced the
      bulb but just left them on for whatever reason. After the third year with the same bulb I turned
      them both off and never used them again but the water has never (knock on wood) gone green
      after the first couple years. No clue why.

      Turnover rate and amount of media usage info please.

    18. #38
      Zac Penn's Avatar
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      I have a customer in south florida that has a 16K gallon pond, two RDF's (60 microns screens), three shower filters w/ 9 cu ft of Cermedia total (yeah I know what a bad word), 380 watts of UV clarification, and a total of 18,000 GPH turnover rate. He struggled for a long time with green water and I kept saying it had to do with his source water. He was flowing about 700 gallons per day as a flow through onto his pond. After replacing his UV lamps multiple times because he thought they were defective, I finally STRONGLY encouraged him to install a filter on his source water. He installed a simple carbon filter as a temporary effort and within 5 days he had gin clear water. He obviously had some kind of crazy algae food source in his source water and it was feeding the algae faster than it could be eradicated. During this entire time he read 0 on ammonia and nitrite and I think he was around 30-50 on nitrates so not a crazy number there either. Sometimes bio filters can't keep the algae at bay and neither can a reasonable amount of UV clarification. However with most of my customers, string algae is a common complaint, and that is easily controlled with more bio-filtration. Single celled algae is a different beast and may take multiple attempts at correcting it.
      Zac Penn.... Not an expert on Pump Testing, no matter what people may think!
      904-288-6199
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    19. #39
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      it's in the food!

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    20. #40
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      Zac could this be because the carbon is removing phosphates and also disolved organics. I recently added a carbon filter that uses a unique media and do a constant flow. My water is crystal clear and I use no uv and ha e 0 nitrates also. With little food source the algae will not thrive imo.

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