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  • Results 1 to 7 of 7

    Thread: I had to Euthanize my Fish due to BAD Ulcer

    1. #1
      Torre is offline Member
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      I had to Euthanize my Fish due to BAD Ulcer

      Im sad to say I had to euthanize my Yellow Ogon a couple of days ago. I put him to sleep with clove oil and said goodbye. His ulcers got so bad I felt he would never recover.
      My experience with him makes me nervous about my Fishes chances at recovery once an ulcer develops as the timeline was so fast and I believed I was doing everything possible to help him recover.
      Here is a timeline of his ulcer development and photos.

      May 3 No signs of Ulcer

      May 18 (Photo 1) First noticed Ulcer above the right gill and decided to leave him in the pond and watch it. I admit I had been more passive than I should have been on water changes and test revealed Ammonia at 0.5, Nitrate at 0.5 and Nitrate at 10. I did an immediate 33% water change.

      May 28 (Photo 2) Ulcer rapidly getting worse so I put the fish in a hospital tank and did the following treatments: The tank is 30 gals. with a lot of air (this fish is approx. 6 long not including his tail).
      Cleaned the ulcers with Iodine and Neosporin on a Q-Tip.
      I maintained the water temp at 83 degrees.
      Did daily water changes and maintained pristine water quality (PH 8.2, 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites & Prime binder to all new water).
      Did a 4 day treatment of Doxycycline and 0.6% salt.
      Diluted the salt to .05% through water changes which took several days.
      Did 3 day Proform C treatment with Prazi on last dose.
      All treatments ended on June 10th.

      June 11 (Photo 3 & 4) Ulcer had worsened. The hole above his gill was so deep I felt like I was looking straight into his head. I put him to sleep figuring I did all I know to do and he was never going to get better. I did a scrape and found nothing under a microscope a 100x and 400x. The fish had almost no slime coat. It should be noted this fish always behaved normally through this entire ordeal. Very active and continued to eat well on his reduced diet while in hospital. He was a fighter to the end.

      Obviously, the rapid advancement of the ulcer(s) in 1 month is alarming! I still have no clue what was the cause and why it would deteriorate so badly and rapidly. Also, the ulcer at the nostril is concerning because I have another Koi who developed the same thing and still has it to a degree. This other Koi had a bad Ulcer at his dorsal fin and a Doxycycline and 0.6% salt treatment seemed to work as the ulcer is now white in color and appears to be healing but she still has the nostril ulcer.

      Any insight would be much appreciated.
      Thank you.
      Mark

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    2. #2
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      Healthy water is key to providing them the optimum chance of recovery from all kinds of issues. Some resolve on their own in good water, others need our intervention.
      It's important to make sure your filters are clean, a low organic load in the pond and so forth.

      Back to the health issue, I'm glad you did the scope. It is good to rule out parasites, if possible.
      At the first sign of redness (beginning of hole/ulcer), if it does not seem to be improving, it is necessary to pull the koi, sedate and at least topically treat it. With your Ogon, it appears as if the infection was starting on the inside. Without injectable antibiotics, that can be challenging. There are dip/bath medications that you can purchase and I would advise you have them on hand for future use. Sometimes you can do a group buy in a koi club for medications. I use Oxolinic acid for some qt protocol and it's good for a number of bacterial issues.

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ive-Discussion

      Hexamita is called "Hole in the head" disease. I've never had it but others may be able to see if they think this may have been the issue.
      It's important to be able to at least treat topically and the above link has a list of products to have on hand for use. Iodine, neosporin and a sedation method can do a lot for topical issues.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

      I'll say something when I feel I have something worth saying. I'm not a fan of flapping my lips just because they are there.

    3. #3
      OCkoiFan's Avatar
      OCkoiFan is online now Supporting Member
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      Sorry for your loss
      Another thing I want to chime in here is the size of qtank
      I always recommend the tank need to be at least 150-300.
      You can tell why your tank temp was at 83F and that is too warm and stressful actually
      More volume better control of temp I suppose 76-78f is ideal
      Ive never use doxycycline but I have some successed on fishmox with ulcers before I found koiphen
      By the way there are better resources out there such as elbagin/salt for early stage of ulcers treatment
      What have you done to the rocks on the bottom of your pond yet?
      Last edited by OCkoiFan; 06-13-2018 at 11:00 AM.
      M.Nguyen


    4. #4
      Torre is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn View Post
      Healthy water is key to providing them the optimum chance of recovery from all kinds of issues. Some resolve on their own in good water, others need our intervention.
      It's important to make sure your filters are clean, a low organic load in the pond and so forth.

      Back to the health issue, I'm glad you did the scope. It is good to rule out parasites, if possible.
      At the first sign of redness (beginning of hole/ulcer), if it does not seem to be improving, it is necessary to pull the koi, sedate and at least topically treat it. With your Ogon, it appears as if the infection was starting on the inside. Without injectable antibiotics, that can be challenging. There are dip/bath medications that you can purchase and I would advise you have them on hand for future use. Sometimes you can do a group buy in a koi club for medications. I use Oxolinic acid for some qt protocol and it's good for a number of bacterial issues.

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ive-Discussion

      Hexamita is called "Hole in the head" disease. I've never had it but others may be able to see if they think this may have been the issue.
      It's important to be able to at least treat topically and the above link has a list of products to have on hand for use. Iodine, neosporin and a sedation method can do a lot for topical issues.
      Thank you for the response.
      I also believe the bacterial issue may have started on the inside. This fish was one of the first two I got for my new pond back in early March. The other fish also died but only a few weeks after I bought them. These are the only two I've lost (so far) so maybe the issues were related.

    5. #5
      Torre is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      Sorry for your loss
      Another thing I want to chime in here is the size of qtank
      I always recommend the tank need to be at least 150-300.
      You can tell why your tank temp was at 83F and that is too warm and stressful actually
      More volume better control of temp I suppose 76-78f is ideal
      Ive never use doxycycline but I have some successed on fishmox with ulcers before I found koiphen
      By the way there are better resources out there such as elbagin/salt for early stage of ulcers treatment
      What have you done to the rocks on the bottom of your pond yet?
      Thank you for the reply.
      The only reason for the small tank was so I could maintain perfect water quality more easily and also treat the entire tank each time. This was a "hospital" tank and not really a QT tank. I changed 33% of the water daily and always verified PH and temp of the new water was nearly the same. I heated the water to 83 in the tank to try and kill off bad bacteria which I understand cannot survive above 82 degrees. The tank was kept in the shade.
      Mark

    6. #6
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Torre View Post
      Thank you for the reply.
      The only reason for the small tank was so I could maintain perfect water quality more easily and also treat the entire tank each time. This was a "hospital" tank and not really a QT tank. I changed 33% of the water daily and always verified PH and temp of the new water was nearly the same. I heated the water to 83 in the tank to try and kill off bad bacteria which I understand cannot survive above 82 degrees. The tank was kept in the shade.
      Mark
      Hi Mark, I'm not sure where you heard that but that is not the case.
      If "bad" bacteria couldn't survive above 82 degrees, humans would never have infections as our body temp is close to 100.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

      I'll say something when I feel I have something worth saying. I'm not a fan of flapping my lips just because they are there.

    7. #7
      Torre is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn View Post
      Hi Mark, I'm not sure where you heard that but that is not the case.
      If "bad" bacteria couldn't survive above 82 degrees, humans would never have infections as our body temp is close to 100.
      Thanks Marilyn.
      I was specifically referring to Aeromonas which no longer grow above 82 degrees. Not to say that the elevated temperature will kill it.
      I may have over thought the situation and should have kept the temps lower.

      Mark

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