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    Thread: what Genetically and non-genetically traits will affect on offsprings?

    1. #1
      parsaria is offline Junior Member
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      what Genetically and non-genetically traits will affect on offsprings?

      Dear friends,

      I am newbie to this forum, I have a question about the koi breeding. I would like to know genetically which traits will inherent to offspring from each parent.

      What will paternal traits inherit offspring?

      What will maternal traits inherit offspring?

      Also, there is non-genetically effects that offspring inherit from parents. What could be these effects? I am not sure about but for example, I heard from folks the size of female koi will help to have more and larger eggs.

      Also, I've heard that genetically body form or shape will inherit from female and pattern quality will inherit from males.

      Could you please share your knowledge with me?

    2. #2
      lukef's Avatar
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      There is so much BS out there about maternal vs paternal transfer. And you seem like you would be prime to believe it...
      here is what is done and why..it REALLY IS NOT GENETIC TRANSFER RELATED TO GENDER OF PARENTS.
      First the hardest thing to "see" in a male koi is the body shape of the females he will produce under the same conditions that the breeder raised the females he is considering for breeding. So the greatest emphasis when picking a female to breed will be her size and body conformation. yes everything else matters. But SIZE AND SHAPE ARE A MUST IN YOUR FEMALE. With males the breeder has to make up for focusing on size and shape with the female so his color qualities and pattern must be the main focus.
      No single factor can be substandard on either koi to get the greatest percentage of high quality offspring.
      And that is all you should ever believe about selecting koi for breeding based on gender.
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    3. #3
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      Hello, Parsaria - Welcome to koiphen.
      Are you planning to breed koi?
      We have an amateur breeders' forum on koiphen. Check it out.
      All the best,



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    4. #4
      nmtsaki's Avatar
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      Genetics is really way too hard predict exactly what would happen when you breed 2 koi, and other animals or humans for that matter. I would imagine that they do not have the entire genome of the koi mapped out, in order to predict what would happen between 2 particular fish; in addition, they would have to have the genome of each of the parents specifically mapped out, knowing what traits you are selecting for, and whether they are dominant or recessive, in order to accurately predict what would happen. What Luke says makes a lot of sense when picking parents to breed, with the current knowledge of genetics. At least with koi, you get a lot of offspring to cull from and to select the best fish of the bunch


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    5. #5
      lukef's Avatar
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      Carp are the most valuable of all aquaculture species and hence....
      Their genome is
      https://www.nature.com/articles/ng.3098
      and the complete genome was released in 2016
      http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0166160

      But koi breeders don't pay much if any attention to science when deciding which parents to use. It is simply done as I said. And culling with a heavy hand "results" in the finished product.
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

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      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      Carp are the most valuable of all aquaculture species and hence....
      Their genome is
      https://www.nature.com/articles/ng.3098
      and the complete genome was released in 2016
      http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0166160

      But koi breeders don't pay much if any attention to science when deciding which parents to use. It is simply done as I said. And culling with a heavy hand "results" in the finished product.
      I see the genetic strains have certain effects to the color and body shape. In the future we can be able to manipulate them in order to get the body shape they like, such as humps or no humps, short head or long head etc

    7. #7
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      Clayton,
      Well we can do that to your species RIGHT NOW!
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    8. #8
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      Thanks for the links, they were interesting reading. Although I hate reading genetic articles. I've done sequencing myself before and it's a lot of hit or miss and guessing and gap filling. I'm pretty impressed that they have at least 90% if not more sequins accuracy for the carp.


      I'm pretty impressed that they have at least 90% if not more sequence accuracy for the car
      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      Carp are the most valuable of all aquaculture species and hence....
      Their genome is
      https://www.nature.com/articles/ng.3098
      and the complete genome was released in 2016
      http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0166160

      But koi breeders don't pay much if any attention to science when deciding which parents to use. It is simply done as I said. And culling with a heavy hand "results" in the finished product.


      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."






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      I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive. -- Gilda Radner

      Yesterday I was a dog. Today I'm a dog. Tomorrow I'll probably still be a dog. Sigh! There's so little hope for advancement. -- Snoopy

    9. #9
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      Hi guys,

      I am not a so professional breeder but looking to know how to improve the quality of offsprings. I know studying genetic over the offspring is hard, but I guess professionals may know or have experienced over the years of breeding the right way to selecting right candidate koi as a parent for briding.

      I want to know more about the role of each parent on offsprings pattern quality, body conformation and more about the body size.

    10. #10
      parsaria is offline Junior Member
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      Hi all,

      I am thanking for all the replies, Please check the below article I find it over internet. I would like to know your all guys Ideas about.

      Thanks.

      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...60.2012.666890

    11. #11
      claytonyu is offline Member
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      I dont think there are specific traits that are tied up to a gender chromosome. Colors, conformation are autosomal

    12. #12
      claytonyu is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      Clayton,
      Well we can do that to your species RIGHT NOW!
      I wish we could. But I dont think anyone would really take the time to genetically engineer koi. They are focused on human health instead

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