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    Results 41 to 60 of 117

    Thread: What to do with KHV carriers?

    1. #41
      kimini is online now Senior Member
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      You guys need to start using the "Ignore" function. Does wonders to rid this site of annoying posts.

    2. #42
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      Quote Originally Posted by bbmc88 View Post
      Excellent post , and agree whole heartedly , You mess with people’s livelihoods and food on there table , you and others better have your A## ready for the ramifications . Maybe it’s finally time to put your big boy pants on and just take a break , your mouth speaks volumes of your ignorance , and lack of respect and knowledge .
      And Mark you are exactly right why this place has turned into a sh%tter , there’s is no positive information to offer , but individual agendas and egos. Hence my fruitful absence.
      I don’t need to defend a great individual , a great individual needs no defense .
      Buts it’s sad those here, and kkona just can’t see past there own personal problems . More interested in seeing someone’s pain and huge financial lose then support and offer encouragement . Those of you gossip hounds need to disconnect and get back to living in the real moments , and not smear your crap all over the net against someone trying to get his life back.
      And truthfully , I wouldn’t even post In regards to this , but the pure bias of him being attacked when such recent events supersede his situation 10fold ...... but you praise those? But attack him?
      If you need examples of those you praise so highly maybe your not in touch with the real koi world. Because most of you just follow like sheep and say what your told, and are unaware of a lot of bad business practices and hush hush incidents .
      I learned that lesson , been there done that, and watched the gangs come out . Ban me for life x 20 it means nothing , cause I learn from facts/ hands on experience and education through mentors, people like Russ and will continue through the good and bad . This forum sadly no longer offers any of that . Its mostly opinions of people who can type 60 words a min , no job , or playing seragate. Rant over . Koiphen over.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Honestly I think most posts on this thread have been supportive so to me it seems your rant may be misplaced. Sorry you feel like
      the forum isn't worth contributing to but it's not for everyone... just like every social media choice.
      Again I'd just remind all that the thread is in the ER forum where we try and keep the posts focused on helping the OP with
      information. It's understandable that more is going on... but this might not be the forum/thread to discuss it.
      --Steve
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      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    3. #43
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Honestly I think most posts on this thread have been supportive so to me it seems your rant may be misplaced. Sorry you feel like
      the forum isn't worth contributing to but it's not for everyone... just like every social media choice.
      Again I'd just remind all that the thread is in the ER forum where we try and keep the posts focused on helping the OP with
      information. It's understandable that more is going on... but this might not be the forum/thread to discuss it.
      I would agree and we are deeply thankful for the support expressed here and elsewhere. It was a rotten situation for all involved.
      Getting back to the OP's question, PSKoi has advised our customers to euthanize any tosai received as we did at the facility.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

      I'll say something when I feel I have something worth saying. I'm not a fan of flapping my lips just because they are there.

    4. #44
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      Thanks for the honesty Marilyn

    5. #45
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      Friday was a sad day for us. I went home and broke the news to the wife and we have decided to keep the fish. I think I'll follow JimFish98's advice and observe them for a year before adding more. If I lose any, I'll send it in for test.

      Thank everyone for the support.

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    6. #46
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      The bigger ones are current. The rest are new.

    7. #47
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      the pond: 5000 gallons gunite with zypex.

    8. #48
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      Quote Originally Posted by friscoponder View Post
      Friday was a sad day for us. I went home and broke the news to the wife and we have decided to keep the fish. I think I'll follow JimFish98's advice and observe them for a year before adding more. If I lose any, I'll send it in for test.

      Thank everyone for the support.
      Please keep us updated... good or bad.
      Last edited by ricshaw; 06-03-2018 at 02:29 PM.


      member

    9. #49
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      Quote Originally Posted by friscoponder View Post
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      the pond: 5000 gallons gunite with zypex.
      Your pond is very nice.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    10. #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by friscoponder View Post
      Friday was a sad day for us. I went home and broke the news to the wife and we have decided to keep the fish. I think I'll follow JimFish98's advice and observe them for a year before adding more. If I lose any, I'll send it in for test.

      Thank everyone for the support.
      That would have been my decision too.

      Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
      It is my understanding that once Koi are exposed to KHV... most all die. The exception is a few can survive and become KHV carriers. There is no cure for KHV.
      Are you saying once a koi get KHV they'll always have KHV? Can you provide a reliable source for this?
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin



    11. #51
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      Can a carrier of KHV pass KHV to offspring through eggs?

    12. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      Can a carrier of KHV pass KHV to offspring through eggs?
      I always wondered the same with koi pox?

    13. #53
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      Quote Originally Posted by friscoponder View Post
      Friday was a sad day for us. I went home and broke the news to the wife and we have decided to keep the fish. I think I'll follow JimFish98's advice and observe them for a year before adding more. If I lose any, I'll send it in for test.

      Thank everyone for the support.

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      Just remember no re-homing and no taking them to shows, etc.. You want to make sure they are 100% isolated just in case. I hope the best for you and that they are all clear and make it a year without change.



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    14. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by friscoponder View Post
      Friday was a sad day for us. I went home and broke the news to the wife and we have decided to keep the fish. I think I'll follow JimFish98's advice and observe them for a year before adding more. If I lose any, I'll send it in for test.

      Thank everyone for the support.

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      .

      I would also keep them If was me. I can't put anything down when it is not showing signs of problems. Reduce the stress and keep your water pristine. The fish seem very healthy

    15. #55
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      A little more support for this approach. Keep them. Don't add. Don't give away. They can't hurt anyone in that pond by themselves. They look beautiful, by the way. Wishing you all the best.



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    16. #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by jimfish98 View Post
      Just remember no re-homing and no taking them to shows, etc.. You want to make sure they are 100% isolated just in case. I hope the best for you and that they are all clear and make it a year without change.
      absolutely. Thanks

    17. #57
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      I think the link to the aggregated KHV research summary that lukef posted is a very good one! I have been reading through it.

      https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com...efsa.2017.4907

      Some very useful quotes:

      However, 100% morbidity has been observed in experimental studies on carp (Haenen et al., 2004; Bergmann et al., 2010b).

      ...

      In experimental studies on carp, 70–80% mortality has been observed (Haenen et al., 2004; Bergmann et al., 2010b). However, in the case of natural infections, there is a knowledge gap relating to observed mortality rates. Several studies suggest that mortality due to KHV (in lake and farm systems) can be high. However, no reliable estimates of mortality rates are available in outbreak sites in Europe and elsewhere, due to difficulties in determining the total host population size. In Taiwan, data from cultured carp outbreaks showed mortality of 70–100%

      ...

      The duration over which mortality is observed is also variable, but generally mortalities occur over a period of 12–20 days and is likely to be determined by the transmission dynamics occurring within a population and temperature. Gilad et al. (2004) showed mortality to occur 5–8 days post‐infection at 23–28°C, and Yuasa et al. (2008) showed mortality to occur at 14–21 days post‐infection at 16–18°C

      ...

      experimental studies suggest that as the pathogen is transmitted through the water (in addition to via direct contact), infection rates post introduction are high and lead to the majority of the population becoming infected over a period of a few days. The relatively short duration of mortality observed in many natural outbreaks may also suggest that the majority of infection occurs within a short timeframe.

      ...

      Fish infected with KHV and kept at a permissive temperature (i.e. > 16°C), die between 5 and 22 days post‐infection with peak of mortality occurring between days 8 and 12 post‐infection (Hedrick et al., 2000; Perelberg et al., 2003; Rakus et al., 2009; Fournier et al., 2012). Furthermore, KHV‐infected fish are more susceptible to secondary infections by bacterial, parasitic or fungal pathogens, which may contribute to the mortalities observed in the infected population (McDermott and Palmeiro, 2013).

      The first clinical signs usually appear 2–3 days post‐infection. In carp, severe necrosis of the gills is the major clinical sign (likely the predominant cause of death), but they also generally express the following: folding of the dorsal fin; increased respiratory frequency; gathering near well‐aerated areas; skin changes including gradual hyperaemia at the base of fins, increased (sometimes decreased) mucus secretion, haemorrhages and ulcers on the skin, sloughing of scales and fin erosion, sandpaper‐like texture of the skin, skin herpetic lesions; gasping at the water surface; lethargy (lying at the bottom of the tank, hanging in head‐down position in the water column) associated with anorexia; sunken eyes; neurological symptoms with erratic swimming and loss of equilibrium (Walster, 1999; Hedrick et al., 2000; McDermott and Palmeiro, 2013; Rakus et al., 2013). None of these clinical signs are specific to KHV disease.
      So it seems to me that if there's KHV in your pond, you will see a fairly high rate of mortality and it will happen in the first 2-4 weeks since the infection. If you don't see ANY mortality then it seems like the chances of KHV being in your pond are *extremely* small. By extremely small I'm talking waaaaay less than 1%. Per article, roughly about 70% mortality is generally being observed, meaning each fish has 70% chance to die and 30% chance to live. So if you have 10 fish with KHV, the odds that none of them die are:

      0.3 * 0.3* 0.3 * 0.3 * 0.3 * 0.3 * 0.3 * 0.3 * 0.3 * 0.3 = 0.0000059%

      That's six onethousand'ths of one percent. What am I missing? Why would anyone kill all their fish if they are showing no signs of disease several months after possible infection?

    18. #58
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koigrl View Post
      A little more support for this approach. Keep them. Don't add. Don't give away. They can't hurt anyone in that pond by themselves. They look beautiful, by the way. Wishing you all the best.
      Nancy



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    19. #59
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      Good luck with them. I think that is what I would do as well. It would be a shame to kill such beautiful koi when they may be just fine.



    20. #60
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      For hobbyists, the decision is difficult and options are between bad and worse. It is unethical to rehome possible carrier. It is unethical to add new fish. However, by keeping the pond running, there is some chance that the virus can spread to nearby ponds and lakes by birds and animals.

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