You guys need to start using the "Ignore" function. Does wonders to rid this site of annoying posts.
You guys need to start using the "Ignore" function. Does wonders to rid this site of annoying posts.
Honestly I think most posts on this thread have been supportive so to me it seems your rant may be misplaced. Sorry you feel like
the forum isn't worth contributing to but it's not for everyone... just like every social media choice.
Again I'd just remind all that the thread is in the ER forum where we try and keep the posts focused on helping the OP with
information. It's understandable that more is going on... but this might not be the forum/thread to discuss it.
Thanks for the honesty Marilyn
Friday was a sad day for us. I went home and broke the news to the wife and we have decided to keep the fish. I think I'll follow JimFish98's advice and observe them for a year before adding more. If I lose any, I'll send it in for test.
Thank everyone for the support.
The bigger ones are current. The rest are new.
the pond: 5000 gallons gunite with zypex.
Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin
KoiRun on YouTube, latest video:
https://youtu.be/72iiuRXY2Wk
Can a carrier of KHV pass KHV to offspring through eggs?
A little more support for this approach. Keep them. Don't add. Don't give away. They can't hurt anyone in that pond by themselves. They look beautiful, by the way. Wishing you all the best.
Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions
Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18
Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com
Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY
If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
Kichi loves company. Max
K-POTY 2014
I think the link to the aggregated KHV research summary that lukef posted is a very good one! I have been reading through it.
https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com...efsa.2017.4907
Some very useful quotes:
So it seems to me that if there's KHV in your pond, you will see a fairly high rate of mortality and it will happen in the first 2-4 weeks since the infection. If you don't see ANY mortality then it seems like the chances of KHV being in your pond are *extremely* small. By extremely small I'm talking waaaaay less than 1%. Per article, roughly about 70% mortality is generally being observed, meaning each fish has 70% chance to die and 30% chance to live. So if you have 10 fish with KHV, the odds that none of them die are:However, 100% morbidity has been observed in experimental studies on carp (Haenen et al., 2004; Bergmann et al., 2010b).
...
In experimental studies on carp, 70–80% mortality has been observed (Haenen et al., 2004; Bergmann et al., 2010b). However, in the case of natural infections, there is a knowledge gap relating to observed mortality rates. Several studies suggest that mortality due to KHV (in lake and farm systems) can be high. However, no reliable estimates of mortality rates are available in outbreak sites in Europe and elsewhere, due to difficulties in determining the total host population size. In Taiwan, data from cultured carp outbreaks showed mortality of 70–100%
...
The duration over which mortality is observed is also variable, but generally mortalities occur over a period of 12–20 days and is likely to be determined by the transmission dynamics occurring within a population and temperature. Gilad et al. (2004) showed mortality to occur 5–8 days post‐infection at 23–28°C, and Yuasa et al. (2008) showed mortality to occur at 14–21 days post‐infection at 16–18°C
...
experimental studies suggest that as the pathogen is transmitted through the water (in addition to via direct contact), infection rates post introduction are high and lead to the majority of the population becoming infected over a period of a few days. The relatively short duration of mortality observed in many natural outbreaks may also suggest that the majority of infection occurs within a short timeframe.
...
Fish infected with KHV and kept at a permissive temperature (i.e. > 16°C), die between 5 and 22 days post‐infection with peak of mortality occurring between days 8 and 12 post‐infection (Hedrick et al., 2000; Perelberg et al., 2003; Rakus et al., 2009; Fournier et al., 2012). Furthermore, KHV‐infected fish are more susceptible to secondary infections by bacterial, parasitic or fungal pathogens, which may contribute to the mortalities observed in the infected population (McDermott and Palmeiro, 2013).
The first clinical signs usually appear 2–3 days post‐infection. In carp, severe necrosis of the gills is the major clinical sign (likely the predominant cause of death), but they also generally express the following: folding of the dorsal fin; increased respiratory frequency; gathering near well‐aerated areas; skin changes including gradual hyperaemia at the base of fins, increased (sometimes decreased) mucus secretion, haemorrhages and ulcers on the skin, sloughing of scales and fin erosion, sandpaper‐like texture of the skin, skin herpetic lesions; gasping at the water surface; lethargy (lying at the bottom of the tank, hanging in head‐down position in the water column) associated with anorexia; sunken eyes; neurological symptoms with erratic swimming and loss of equilibrium (Walster, 1999; Hedrick et al., 2000; McDermott and Palmeiro, 2013; Rakus et al., 2013). None of these clinical signs are specific to KHV disease.
0.3 * 0.3* 0.3 * 0.3 * 0.3 * 0.3 * 0.3 * 0.3 * 0.3 * 0.3 = 0.0000059%
That's six onethousand'ths of one percent. What am I missing? Why would anyone kill all their fish if they are showing no signs of disease several months after possible infection?
Good luck with them. I think that is what I would do as well. It would be a shame to kill such beautiful koi when they may be just fine.
For hobbyists, the decision is difficult and options are between bad and worse. It is unethical to rehome possible carrier. It is unethical to add new fish. However, by keeping the pond running, there is some chance that the virus can spread to nearby ponds and lakes by birds and animals.