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    Thread: What to do with KHV carriers?

    1. #21
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      I wasn't trying to drag you under the bus. I did talk to a few people that purchased some tosai and gave them a heads up. It already got ugly on fb and i wasn't involved. I have been to your place and bought 3 tosai and the nisai ochiba. All the fish were Healthy. I did say on fb I wish for the best on the recovery for pskoi. It won't get ugly though and I'm sorry for what you have gone though and it Is a difficult time for all like Andrea just said.
      While we were waiting for our test results from the Federal lab in Ames Iowa this is thread you started and it was before you posted on Facebook about it.

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...till-a-problem

      Here are a couple of quotes from your thread. Mind you, again, we were waiting for our results. I am getting copious messages from lots of people saying that there is a concerted effort to drive me out of business. I hope, given your statement, that you are not participating in this effort.
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      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    2. #22
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
      It is my understanding that once Koi are exposed to KHV... most all die. The exception is a few can survive and become KHV carriers. There is no cure for KHV.

      And water temperature is not a reason it may not be showing, just the stress of transporting and moving Koi is enough.
      Just for clarification, that would be accurate if the virus was actively shedding. What made our situation unique was a couple of things. One, it was brand new facility with brand new equipment, two, our mortality rate was far less than is common with KHV. In the four tanks we lost anywhere from 5% to 15% of the Koi. That is one of the reasons we felt in necessary to get the reports from both Purdue and Ames. We wanted to know why they were dying if it wasn't from KHV. This does not negate the fact that there were carriers of KHV in the shipment and because it was a new facility we knew we got it from this shipment.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      While we were waiting for our test results from the Federal lab in Ames Iowa this is thread you started and it was before you posted on Facebook about it.

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...till-a-problem

      Here are a couple of quotes from your thread. Mind you, again, we were waiting for our results. I am getting copious messages from lots of people saying that there is a concerted effort to drive me out of business. I hope, given your statement, that you are not participating in this effort.
      We own a small family business so no i would not try to drive you out of business. I did make that thread but did not use a name. I guess I went a little far by saying it was covered up. I do wish the best for you though.

    4. #24
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      Without an argument could the columnaris come out as a secondary infection from khv? Khv often leads to secondary infection which are the cause of death right?

    5. #25
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      I have been keeping koi for about 6-7 years now. I think in the last few years i have almost bought all my fish from Russ and some from Kevin P. Have nothing but good to say about them. Life happens and nothing will change my opinion of these individuals and i will continue to buy from them, in fact i bought some recently . Talent - can't take it away.

    6. #26
      dragonfly1976 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      We own a small family business so no i would not try to drive you out of business. I did make that thread but did not use a name. I guess I went a little far by saying it was covered up. I do wish the best for you though.
      Kevin, you ‘say’ you’re not trying to hurt Russ’s business, but your actions say otherwise. You keep posting foolish messages with innuendo’s to Pskoi. I’m sure you would not like it if someone plastered negative comments about your tile work all over the internet. Just remember that when you post here on koiphen or anywhere else on the internet that it can’t be taken back. It’s out there forever. Saying you’re sorry after the damage has been done is “too little, too late”. That goes for the rest who have posted before thinking it through also. One thing I’ve learned in my 30 years of business is when problems arise, talk about solutions to problems instead of pointing fingers.

    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by dragonfly1976 View Post
      Kevin, you ‘say’ you’re not trying to hurt Russ’s business, but your actions say otherwise. You keep posting foolish messages with innuendo’s to Pskoi. I’m sure you would not like it if someone plastered negative comments about your tile work all over the internet. Just remember that when you post here on koiphen or anywhere else on the internet that it can’t be taken back. It’s out there forever. Saying you’re sorry after the damage has been done is “too little, too late”. That goes for the rest who have posted before thinking it through also. One thing I’ve learned in my 30 years of business is when problems arise, talk about solutions to problems instead of pointing fingers.
      I see your point . But if my actions were so foolish then people can hate me then. You really think a tile Guy has any intent to take down a koi dealer?

    8. #28
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      Ive had 100% comments on my tile work also.

    9. #29
      Hugomizz is offline Senior Member
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      To be honest Im sick off all the jibberish that comes out your mouth at times Kevin, I have to agree with Dragonfly 1976, this is one of the reasons I have stopped posting and visiting this board

    10. #30
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      Just a reminder that his thread is in the ER forum and so if the post isn't for the OP that has a question
      about a health concern, it may be removed.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Without an argument could the columnaris come out as a secondary infection from khv? Khv often leads to secondary infection which are the cause of death right?
      We took live koi to be euthanized at Purdue because we were advised by them that that would provide the least chance of contamination thus the most accurate results. We did not submit dead koi.

      Three of the koi submitted by Kurt were KHV negative, one was positive. We have no histopathies beyond that from those.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

      I'll say something when I feel I have something worth saying. I'm not a fan of flapping my lips just because they are there.

    12. #32
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      Russ and M- I may have missed this in the Facebook posts, but of those tested you noted some were carriers but they were dying due to the Columnaris. Were all carriers or a limited number similar to that of Kurt's 25%?

      To the OP, I would follow Russ's advice if he gave it to you. If you are looking for what some of us would personally do, I would keep all fish and wait. I would compare what was seen in the one that passed with the symptoms/signs of Columnaris to see if that is the issue rather than KHV. In my mind set with all the temps and stress, it should have shown by now if it was KHV. If it was a carrier only and is going to infect your other fish, they have already been exposed and there as not much you can do but wait to see if it hits them. The same would apply if the one that passed had Columnaris and passed it to the others. I would study up on it as if there are signs of a disease outbreak I would follow Russ's advice on treating it. If they get better, you know it was not KHV. If over the next 6 months I saw no change, I would consider adding a cheap koi after QT to test the waters before adding anything down the road of value. For me with the limited signs, I would use my time to watch/observe/treat rather than mass euthanasia and cleaning.



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      Just because its not a Great Koi doesn't mean its not a Great Koi...Me circa 2013

    13. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn View Post
      We took live koi to be euthanized at Purdue because we were advised by them that that would provide the least chance of contamination thus the most accurate results. We did not submit dead koi.

      Three of the koi submitted by Kurt were KHV negative, one was positive. We have no histopathies beyond that from those.
      Thanks Marilyn.

    14. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by jimfish98 View Post
      Russ and M- I may have missed this in the Facebook posts, but of those tested you noted some were carriers but they were dying due to the Columnaris. Were all carriers or a limited number similar to that of Kurt's 25%?

      To the OP, I would follow Russ's advice if he gave it to you. If you are looking for what some of us would personally do, I would keep all fish and wait. I would compare what was seen in the one that passed with the symptoms/signs of Columnaris to see if that is the issue rather than KHV. In my mind set with all the temps and stress, it should have shown by now if it was KHV. If it was a carrier only and is going to infect your other fish, they have already been exposed and there as not much you can do but wait to see if it hits them. The same would apply if the one that passed had Columnaris and passed it to the others. I would study up on it as if there are signs of a disease outbreak I would follow Russ's advice on treating it. If they get better, you know it was not KHV. If over the next 6 months I saw no change, I would consider adding a cheap koi after QT to test the waters before adding anything down the road of value. For me with the limited signs, I would use my time to watch/observe/treat rather than mass euthanasia and cleaning.
      It was a limited number.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    15. #35
      SeaSideAquatics, LLC is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Hugomizz View Post
      To be honest Im sick off all the jibberish that comes out your mouth at times Kevin
      Hahahaha

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    16. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      It was a limited number.
      Sorry bud.
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    17. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      We have already been e-mailing each other and I have my recommendation and told him what is going on. I think he is just looking for what you all would do. We just got our histopathology report from Purdue and the Tosai were dying from Columnaris and not KHV. This is why we were able to stop it with medication. Some of the samples we sent to Purdue did in fact have KHV and were carriers but it appears that what was killing them was Columnaris
      I "dealt" with KHV 10 or so years ago, back when it was the "Great Plague" in the koidom. I have a BS in Health Education from Auburn, and have studied quite a bit about KHV. KHV is the sky that is falling in the koi world. Unfortunately, it has too many dimensions for the normal person to try and understand before they open their yap and spread half-truths. I do not even know most of what is out there. And This post is a good example of the "half-truths" that are "half-way" given about KHV for whatever reason.
      For just about as long as KHV has been recognized it has been clearly stated that in MANY DEATHS RESULT FROM SECONDARY INFECTIONS THAT WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED IF THE KOI HAD NOT HAD KHV. KHV is just a little bit like HIV in one aspect, it weakens the immune system and the infected individual to the extent that "other" diseases/infections will cause death. So the poster is correct. KHV didn't kill the fish from that source, but to not state that they were the cause for the fish to die from what did kill them is disturbing as that poster knows the epidemiology of KHV very well. Now to answer your question concerning testing your fish without killing them. Here is the best source I can find that isn't all full of crap and half-truths concerning KHV. Under the detection section it clearly states that more than one type of test should be done to determine if KHV is present. However it states that to test live fish blood samples can be drawn. Before you go to the expense you should discuss the validity of such a test with the person you hire to do such tests, but first research it yourself.

      https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com...efsa.2017.4907

      And as a sidebar read the whole report. If you don't come away with the understanding that KHV is already EVERYWHERE then reread it... not only is it found in so many natural bodies of water, but goldfish, sturgeons, catfish and several other aquatic species(bivalves) have been shown to be carriers. And to top that off the survivors often go undetected when conditions are right to infect a population to the extent they become carriers yet none of the fish ever show symptoms.... KHV is problematic when it shows up in certain situations. It is much more prevalent than just those situations.
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    18. #38
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      From a seminar I went to a few years back
      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...72#post2653772

      Info from the last Seminar I went to.....
      KHV can remain latent without any visible signs of an outbreak.
      In its latent state , it can only be detected molecularly .
      It has been detected in a body of water at least 6 months after any host fish have been removed.
      It has been detected in soil, plants, insects, and other forms of aquatic life .
      It exists in the wild , as well as in Our ponds.
      Many stressors , in addition to temperature changes , can set it off.

      This info is from a Seminar 2 years ago, conducted by Dr Aimee Reed , who was working on the AKCA sponsored Project KHV at Oregon State University.
      Dr Reed also stated that She had Koi within the study , that had remained in the latent stage for over 6 years without any visible outbreaks.
      Sorry , I don't have any current info or updates on the research , but I will get some soon and post it Here.



      I will get some new updates soon
      There is a new AKCA Seminar and wet lab coming up in San Diego June 23 ,24 We will learn updates from the AKCA's project KHV

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    19. #39
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      There is also a genitic factor that seldom gets acknowledged. No different than dog breeders that continue with lines that have abnormally high genetic health defects such as blindness, hip and hearing issues but have characteristics that win shows. Breeding stock should exhibit both health and show characteristics.

    20. #40
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      Quote Originally Posted by dragonfly1976 View Post
      Kevin, you Ďsayí youíre not trying to hurt Russís business, but your actions say otherwise. You keep posting foolish messages with innuendoís to Pskoi. Iím sure you would not like it if someone plastered negative comments about your tile work all over the internet. Just remember that when you post here on koiphen or anywhere else on the internet that it canít be taken back. Itís out there forever. Saying youíre sorry after the damage has been done is ďtoo little, too lateĒ. That goes for the rest who have posted before thinking it through also. One thing Iíve learned in my 30 years of business is when problems arise, talk about solutions to problems instead of pointing fingers.
      Excellent post , and agree whole heartedly , You mess with peopleís livelihoods and food on there table , you and others better have your A## ready for the ramifications . Maybe itís finally time to put your big boy pants on and just take a break , your mouth speaks volumes of your ignorance , and lack of respect and knowledge .
      And Mark you are exactly right why this place has turned into a sh%tter , thereís is no positive information to offer , but individual agendas and egos. Hence my fruitful absence.
      I donít need to defend a great individual , a great individual needs no defense .
      Buts itís sad those here, and kkona just canít see past there own personal problems . More interested in seeing someoneís pain and huge financial lose then support and offer encouragement . Those of you gossip hounds need to disconnect and get back to living in the real moments , and not smear your crap all over the net against someone trying to get his life back.
      And truthfully , I wouldnít even post In regards to this , but the pure bias of him being attacked when such recent events supersede his situation 10fold ...... but you praise those? But attack him?
      If you need examples of those you praise so highly maybe your not in touch with the real koi world. Because most of you just follow like sheep and say what your told, and are unaware of a lot of bad business practices and hush hush incidents .
      I learned that lesson , been there done that, and watched the gangs come out . Ban me for life x 20 it means nothing , cause I learn from facts/ hands on experience and education through mentors, people like Russ and will continue through the good and bad . This forum sadly no longer offers any of that . Its mostly opinions of people who can type 60 words a min , no job , or playing seragate. Rant over . Koiphen over.


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