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    Thread: What to do with KHV carriers?

    1. #1
      friscoponder is offline Senior Member
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      What to do with KHV carriers?

      I might have bought some KHV carriers recently. The dealer confirmed that he had KHV and killed all the fish. What should I do?

      I got 9 of them in mid April and quarantined them for 4 weeks. At the end of the 4 weeks, they were all very active and shown no sights of stress or diseases, so I moved them to the main pond with 7 other fish.

      A week later, I noticed that one of the new ones has one clamped fin and not eating. a few days later, I had a chance to see the fin and it was rotting. other than that, there's no excess mucus. By that time, the fish was very weak and swam very slowly on top. I could catch it easily and moved it back to QT by itself. Later that day, when I went to check on it, it was already death. We also had a spike in ammonia at time (I used SAFE every 2 days until it came back down), so I thought it died from stress and bacterial infection. Another fish (also one of the new ones) showed sight of stress during the same period, but that fish has since rejoined the herd and eaten a lot. It might have been harassed by the current residents.

      As of today all 15 are very active and eat a lot. There's no sights of stress or diseases. could it be that I got lucky and they were not carriers?

      I don't want to put them down. It would devastate the wife and kids. But, at the same time, I don't want to have carriers.

      Is there way to test without killing them?

      Thanks.
      Last edited by friscoponder; 1 Week Ago at 12:49 PM.

    2. #2
      tbullard is online now Senior Member
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      Looks like you would need one dead one to send the proper samples. http://vet.uga.edu/idl/pdf/Sample_pr...s_Testing2.pdf

    3. #3
      ricshaw's Avatar
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      The dealer had KHV that killed all the fish. You have not lost any fish.

      Without proper testing... because your 7 other fish are okay, I would do nothing.


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    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by friscoponder View Post
      I might have bought some KHV carriers recently. The dealer confirmed that he had KHV and killed all the fish. What should I do?

      I got 9 of them in mid April and quarantined them for 4 weeks. At the end of the 4 weeks, they were all very active and shown no sights of stress or diseases, so I moves them to the main pond with with 7 other fish.

      A week later, I noticed that one of the new ones has one clamped fin and not eating and I could catch it easily. a few days later, I had a chance to see the fin and it was rotting. other than that, there's no excess mucus. By that time, the fish was very weak and swam very slowly on top. I could catch it easily and move it back to QT by itself. Later that day, when I went to check on it, it was already death. We also had a spike in ammonia at time (I used SAFE every 2 days until it came back down), so I thought it died from stress and bacterial infection. Another fish (also one of the new ones) showed sight of stress during the same period, but that fish has since rejoined the herd and eat a lot. It might have been harassed by the current residents.

      As of today all 15 are very active and eat a lot. There's no sights of stress or diseases. could it be that I got luck and they were not carriers?

      I don't want to put them down. It would devastated the wife and kids. But, at the same time, I don't want to have carriers.

      Is there way to test without killing them?

      Thanks.
      I'll say it again... Russ is easy to contact. Write to him and he can tell you the chain of events as opposed to
      people just guessing and my understanding is he's contacted all of those that bought fish that may have been
      exposed. If you're concerned, call him.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    5. #5
      jimfish98's Avatar
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      Depending on water temps, it just may not be showing. Was your QT heated and what is your current pond temp?



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      Just because its not a Great Koi doesn't mean its not a Great Koi...Me circa 2013

    6. #6
      friscoponder is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
      The dealer had KHV that killed all the fish.
      It wasn't clear if the virus or the dealer that killed all the fish.

      I read that high temperature help the fish fight the virus. I am in Dallas and water temperature is around 85. Could that be the reason I only lost one? Some of my existing one came from Israel via NDK and I heard that Israel koi immuned to KHV. I don't know that that is true or not.

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by friscoponder View Post
      It wasn't clear if the virus or the dealer that killed all the fish.

      I read that high temperature help the fish fight the virus. I am in Dallas and water temperature is around 85. Could that be the reason I only lost one? Some of my existing one came from Israel via NDK and I heard that Israel koi immuned to KHV. I don't know that that is true or not.
      My understanding is the high temps can stress the koi and expose them as carriers. I don't believe there is any cure or "help" for the
      fish to fight the virus.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    8. #8
      ricshaw's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by friscoponder View Post
      It wasn't clear if the virus or the dealer that killed all the fish.
      I read that high temperature help the fish fight the virus. I am in Dallas and water temperature is around 85. Could that be the reason I only lost one? Some of my existing one came from Israel via NDK and I heard that Israel koi immuned to KHV. I don't know that that is true or not.
      It is my understanding that once Koi are exposed to KHV... most all die. The exception is a few can survive and become KHV carriers. There is no cure for KHV.

      And water temperature is not a reason it may not be showing, just the stress of transporting and moving Koi is enough.
      Last edited by ricshaw; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:16 PM.


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      Quote Originally Posted by jimfish98 View Post
      Depending on water temps, it just may not be showing. Was your QT heated and what is your current pond temp?
      It was cold in April so I heated the QT to 75. The current pond temp is 80 to 85+.

    10. #10
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by friscoponder View Post
      It wasn't clear if the virus or the dealer that killed all the fish.
      Some fish died that were sold. Then 20 of the remaining fish were tested and some came back positive for KHV.
      All the remaining unsold fish that were exposed were euthanized.

      Reading your post on the other thread, sadly I'd euthanize any that Russ said were exposed and have
      them replaced. Sorry.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    11. #11
      friscoponder is offline Senior Member
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      I read an article on koivet about using heat to control outbreaks and the survivors becomes carriers.

      http://www.koivet.com/a_KHV_koi_herp...ontrolled.html

      If it's not appropriate to link to an external article in ER, please delete the link.

    12. #12
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      I'll say it again... Russ is easy to contact. Write to him and he can tell you the chain of events as opposed to
      people just guessing and my understanding is he's contacted all of those that bought fish that may have been
      exposed. If you're concerned, call him.
      We have already been e-mailing each other and I have my recommendation and told him what is going on. I think he is just looking for what you all would do. We just got our histopathology report from Purdue and the Tosai were dying from Columnaris and not KHV. This is why we were able to stop it with medication. Some of the samples we sent to Purdue did in fact have KHV and were carriers but it appears that what was killing them was Columnaris
      Last edited by Russell Peters; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:00 PM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    13. #13
      ricshaw's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by friscoponder View Post
      I read an article on koivet about using heat to control outbreaks and the survivors becomes carriers.
      So heat helps control KHV losses and the survivors become KHV carriers? Then what... keep the KHV carriers so they can pass KHV onto other new fish?


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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      We have already been e-mailing each other and I have my recommendation and told him what is going on. I think he is just looking for what you all would do. We just got our histopathology report from Purdue and the Tosai were dying from Columnaris and not KHV. This is why we were able to stop it with medication.
      Mine were Tosai, so is it possible that they were not infected? I won't add any more fish for a long time, so if they all survive to next Spring, are they clear?
      Last edited by friscoponder; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:30 PM.

    15. #15
      cindy's Avatar
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      Only way to be sure is to send off the frozen fish to UGA. http://vet.uga.edu/idl/pdf/Sample_pr...s_Testing2.pdf

      Some are saying bloodwork. Having this discussion at Koi Keepers of North America. Do you have a vet you can work with? http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmth/l...herp_virus.cfm

      If they have been exposed, they are carriers. You can't add fish or give fish away.

      More https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27771562
      Last edited by cindy; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:27 PM.
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

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    16. #16
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      OK, just to be clear, there is a lynch mob and it has two K.O.I. KHA people involved. I have been nothing but transparent and they, along with kevin32 are trying to make me look bad and I have had enough. I posted on this thread that the Tosai died from Columnaris, and they did, this was confirmed by the histopathology report by Dr. Lin. Five days after we dropped off the Tosai DR. Lin sent me a message saying it looked liked Columnaris and then two days later we got a report confirming it. Two days ago we got the full report confirming it again. I never said they did not test positive for KHV as they did. Some of them are carriers. Period! That does not mean they died from it. What is so hard to understand about that? I asked Dr. Lin about Kurtís fish and said , ď if they died from KHV would they have gotten a negative test?Ē He said no it would be all over them and any type of test would have had the virus on it. The first three Tosai Kurt had that died did not die from KHV as they all tested negative. The fourth tested positive but may not have died of it either.

      I am stunned at the eagerness of these people to want to destroy my livelihood. It is pathetic. When two other dealers came out they were praised and nothing else was said even though one of them has had it at least five times and has given it to many customers. They did not admit it until they had their positive test results and I waited till I had mine. Why is that an issue? I wasnít Hiding anything I was just waiting for confirmation with my Tosai that I took in and it took two weeks. I was accused of lying and not being transparent because of this. I donít think this is fair. I know who is doing this cause I have many sources that are telling me. Kevin was easy, he starts threads and accuses me of lying even though he knows nothing about who I am or what I do. The other two dislike me cause I challenge what they know but that is no reason to ruin some oneís business. I no longer care if this gets ugly.
      Last edited by Russell Peters; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:30 PM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    17. #17
      ademink's Avatar
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      Thank you for thr clarification, Russ. This is a difficult time for all who are involved. Best wishes both to you and the others who are affected.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      OK, just to be clear, there is a lynch mob and it has two K.O.I. KHA people involved. I have been nothing but transparent and they, along with kevin32 are trying to make me look bad and I have had enough. I posted on this thread that the Tosai died from Columnaris, and they did, this was confirmed by the histopathology report by Dr. Lin. Five days after we dropped off the Tosai DR. Lin sent me a message saying it looked liked Columnaris and then two days later we got a report confirming it. Two days ago we got the full report confirming it again. I never said they did not test positive for KHV as they did. Some of them are carriers. Period! That does not mean they died from it. What is so hard to understand about that? I asked Dr. Lin about Kurt’s fish and said , “ if they died from KHV would they have gotten a negative test?” He said no it would be all over them and any type of test would have had the virus on it. The first three Tosai Kurt had that died did not die from KHV as they all tested negative. The fourth tested positive but may not have died of it either.

      I am stunned at the eagerness of these people to want to destroy my lively hood. It is pathetic. When two other dealers came out they were praised and nothing else was said even though one of them has had it at least five times and has given it to many customers. They did not admit it until they had their positive test results and I waited till I had mine. Why is that an issue? I wasn’t Hiding anything I was just waiting for confirmation with my Tosai that I took in and it took two weeks. I was accused of lying and not being transparent because of this. I don’t think this is fair. I know who is doing this cause I have many sources that are telling me. Kevin was easy, he starts threads and accuses me of lying even though he knows nothing about who I am or what I do. The other two dislike me cause I challenge what they know but that is no reason to ruin some one’s business. I no longer care if this gets ugly.
      I wasn't trying to drag you under the bus. I did talk to a few people that purchased some tosai and gave them a heads up. It already got ugly on fb and i wasn't involved. I have been to your place and bought 3 tosai and the nisai ochiba. All the fish were Healthy. I did say on fb I wish for the best on the recovery for pskoi. It won't get ugly though and I'm sorry for what you have gone though and it Is a difficult time for all like Andrea just said.

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      Russ, it's a bump on the road and you will recover. I am looking forward to see your build thread again.

    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      Only way to be sure is to send off the frozen fish to UGA. http://vet.uga.edu/idl/pdf/Sample_pr...s_Testing2.pdf

      Some are saying bloodwork. Having this discussion at Koi Keepers of North America. Do you have a vet you can work with? http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmth/l...herp_virus.cfm

      If they have been exposed, they are carriers. You can't add fish or give fish away.

      More https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27771562

      Purdue and Ames would be a better way to do the testing as Ames is the Federal USDA APHIS lab.
      Last edited by Russell Peters; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:31 PM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

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