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  • Results 1 to 19 of 19

    Thread: Red fins newish fish

    1. #1
      markbannister is offline Member
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      Red fins newish fish

      First new fish we have added in years. Eats quite well, very active but these red streaks have just appeared.
      Checking water quality now.

      Edit: added the fish about one month ago
      Water is near perfect, ph 7.4. Gh, kh, good, no nitrates, nitrites or ammonia.
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      Last edited by markbannister; 05-23-2018 at 06:16 PM.

    2. #2
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      What I see is one red area on the fin, and that appears to be a netting injury. If that is what you are seeing and asking about, give it time. These types of issues will generally fix themselves, given time and good water.

      Speaking of water, I don't know what "Gh, kh, good" means. They are always given numbers, like 80ppm or 150ppm, or 4 drops, 4 degrees, or some other number. Good doesn't help us help to get the best water. With a pH of 7.4, is that morning, evening, since I am most familiar with the waters from limestone deposits that have a reasonable KH, the pH will generally be closer to 8.3 if the KH is high enough to provide stability. If you are using test strips, they are notorious for being poor substitutes for drop type test kits, nearly unreadable for some of the tests, and if they have age, just plain wrong. I would recommend the API drop type test kits for Ammonia, Nitrite, high range pH, Nitrate, and KH, with KH being the most important of these going forward, once the system has cycled.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    3. #3
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      Thanks so much for the response.
      By gh and kh good I mean 100-150 ppm.
      Ph was taken about 1 hour after pond was in shade (5:30 ish PM). Ph tend to be rather low historically. I'm in SE, water is from the Tennesse river. Limestone is our life.
      Pond is long established, 10 years plus.
      The red marks appeared after returning from a short vacation (5 days). The top picture, while hard to see, shows more of a injury traveling up the length of the fin. This fish is very active. He will mix it up with 2 foot long fish during feeding time.
      Would a netting injury show up a month later?

    4. #4
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Being a longfin, I have had them have blood streaks the length of the fin due to stress. The stress could be predators, could be water quality issues, could be spawning activity, could be .....

      The one spot on the left pec seems to be more than just the streaks that I see in the first picture of the right pec.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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      Things are getting worse.
      Hard to see blue these are bright red blood vessels
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    6. #6
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      Veining is a show of stress. The first place to look is water chemistry. I would like for you to run pH as close to sunrise as possible and again in late afternoon to see if there is a difference. Are your tests run with liquid drop type tests, dip strips, analytical equipment, digital devices???? The test strips are notoriously poor. For pH there are three liquid drop test kits, one says pH, one says high range pH, and one says wide range pH. The one that you will want is the high range pH if you are not using a digital pen. The pH values that we typically have with the ponds is over 8 and the test kit that just says pH doesn't read that high. The wide range pH test is good for telling you which pH test to use, but has such poor readability that it is nearly worthless.

      It is much easier and cheaper to fix the water than to fix parasites of fish, so lets start systematically trying to verify where we are with the water, and then we can move on if needed.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    7. #7
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      Ph in AM 7.6
      Sunset 7.2
      Drop test, both high and low ph test

    8. #8
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      I don't know which way to go. Your KH is high enough, that I would expect the pH to be much higher, the morning pH is typically low and evening pH typically high, due to build up of carbon dioxide overnight and photosynthesis consuming the carbon dioxide during daylight hours, so none of the numbers make sense to me. Not saying that they are wrong, just not typical and I don't know where to go with them.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    9. #9
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      You might try a different test kit. In my saltwater experience I have seen people chasing parameters only to find out that their test kit was expired or just bad for some reason.



    10. #10
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      Yesterday was cloudy all day and of course it's been raining a lot.

    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by markbannister View Post
      Thanks so much for the response.
      By gh and kh good I mean 100-150 ppm.
      Ph was taken about 1 hour after pond was in shade (5:30 ish PM). Ph tend to be rather low historically. I'm in SE, water is from the Tennesse river. Limestone is our life.
      Pond is long established, 10 years plus.
      The red marks appeared after returning from a short vacation (5 days). The top picture, while hard to see, shows more of a injury traveling up the length of the fin. This fish is very active. He will mix it up with 2 foot long fish during feeding time.
      Would a netting injury show up a month later?
      If limestone is your life, I believe your pH should run HIGH...not low. Acid = low. Base = high. I am with Rich..something isn't adding up with the numbers and the pH. If you have a KH of 100-150, your pH should be around 8.3 or so. Also, pH is usually low in the morning and high at night. Everything seems backward.
      Andrea
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    12. #12
      ademink's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by markbannister View Post
      Yesterday was cloudy all day and of course it's been raining a lot.
      Rain is acidic and can lower pH but if your KH is 100-150, there shouldn't really be a change unless your pond is small and it was a LOT of rain.

      Did you QT the new fish before adding it?
      Andrea
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    13. #13
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      Yes, quarantined for 1 week. Didn't do it longer cause it was only a 10 gallon tank and the fish was quite active. Still is, in fact all the fish are really hyper. Eating like they are starving and swimming a lot. They do like it when the rain flushes out the veggie filter so that may explain some of their activity.
      I'll recheck all the values and check the age of the test kits (most likely old). We are getting the rains from the tropical storm today.
      Pond is only ~700 gallons.

    14. #14
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      Retested gh & kh. I don't see an expire date on the chemicals but they are easily 8 years old.

      I must have remembered the numbers wrong.
      GH 9 drops. So 100-200 range
      KH. 4 drops 50-100 range
      Ph in the afternoon still hovering around 7.2

    15. #15
      ademink's Avatar
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      4 drops on a KH kit is 71.6...not 50-100.

      Test your pH this evening - this is when it will be its highest. If it is in the 8-8.3 range, put in .75 lb of baking soda (12 oz) tonight. Rather than your pH dropping in the morning, it should stabilize out at around 8.3 .

      ONLY do this in the evening when the pH is in that 8-8.3 range.

      If your pH doesn't reach that range, you need to slowly start adding baking soda in the evening to raise your KH levels. 1/2 cup or so per evening.
      Andrea
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    16. #16
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      Get an air stone or three and toss them in. Re-group Sat. Those fish are in stagnation. Whats the water temp ? 84 ?
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    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by markbannister View Post
      Yes, quarantined for 1 week. Didn't do it longer cause it was only a 10 gallon tank and the fish was quite active. Still is, in fact all the fish are really hyper. Eating like they are starving and swimming a lot. They do like it when the rain flushes out the veggie filter so that may explain some of their activity.
      I'll recheck all the values and check the age of the test kits (most likely old). We are getting the rains from the tropical storm today.
      Pond is only ~700 gallons.
      These statements provide a much better window into your issues than just the water parameters IMHO. If you rely on rainwater to "flush" your veggie filter, which IMO is mostly useless, that belies a rather unacceptable maintenance regimen. then the bigger problem - 700gal pond with koi! You may have been successful (gotten away with it) for awhile, but good ole' Mother Nature has come calling. Based on the pic of the Kohaku, you have some Ph/Kh issues along with inadequate filtration. These types of problems are A-typical of Spring time problems we see here on the forum every year. Adding a fish that was only qt'd for a week in a 10gal aquarium is not sufficient.

      How many actual koi do you have in this pond? What size are they? What amount and type of filtration/circulation do you have in the "system"? Is there a bottom drain? How much are you currently feeding? What is the current water temp?
      Mike

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      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      These statements provide a much better window into your issues than just the water parameters IMHO. If you rely on rainwater to "flush" your veggie filter, which IMO is mostly useless, that belies a rather unacceptable maintenance regimen. then the bigger problem - 700gal pond with koi! You may have been successful (gotten away with it) for awhile, but good ole' Mother Nature has come calling. Based on the pic of the Kohaku, you have some Ph/Kh issues along with inadequate filtration. These types of problems are A-typical of Spring time problems we see here on the forum every year. Adding a fish that was only qt'd for a week in a 10gal aquarium is not sufficient.

      How many actual koi do you have in this pond? What size are they? What amount and type of filtration/circulation do you have in the "system"? Is there a bottom drain? How much are you currently feeding? What is the current water temp?
      Fair questions. By flush I just mean that the water level rises higher than typical, debris in the veggie filter flows out. The fish love it. They stick their noses up to the filter and try to eat what ever is coming out.
      The veggie filter is 10% of the pond. The pump circulates all the water in about an hour.
      This is a well established pond stable for about 10 years. Yes it has too many fish, 2 largish koi (about 2 feet long), 3 butterfly koi, and 3-4 goldfish/shubunkins that just keep on living forever.

      Bottom drain and leaf filter. Settling tank and 10% veggie filter. Water stays clear all year. No algae issues as the pond is shaded 80% of the day.
      Pond has an air stone. Water temp is ... not sure not hot still in the 70's I would think.

      I almost always have some minor issues in Spring but it seems to be caused more by rapid temperature changes. Spring in the South is tough on them. I have one shubunkin that always gets a few white spots on it's fins in Spring and about the time I think I need to put him in quarantine he gets better. Otherwise fish have been nice and healthy for a long time.

    19. #19
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      I bought new test kits just in case.
      PH readings are the same as the old ones.
      PH is not getting as high as 8.3 so I will start slowly adding baking soda as advised.
      The fish are not getting any worse and maybe look better.
      Thanks all for the help so far.

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