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    Thread: Bottom drain plumbing angle?

    1. #1
      two_wheeled is offline Senior Member
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      Bottom drain plumbing angle?

      Newbie here. I searched but can't find the answer.
      When I plumb my 4" bottom drain, what angle should I run the 4" PVC pipe underground before it reaches the pump?
      1) Level from the bottom drain, then a 90 degree sweep up to the pump
      2) Gradual slope underground to the pump
      3) 45 degree directly to the pump
      4) Something else entirely

      I put on my kindergarten thinking cap and went to town with some crayons. Does this picture help explain my question?
      Name:  BD plumbing.png
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    2. #2
      kimini is offline Senior Member
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      The bottom one.

    3. #3
      guardianx9 is offline Member
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      avoid sharp 90 degree angle if u can.. gradual slope is best if u have a lot of space.. but if u dont like me.. then ur going to try to best to create the least sharpest slope.. and if u want ultra clear water u make another chamber far away from the settling chamber and that is where u have the pump suck the water.. giving time for the particle to settle in the chamber

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      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      The bottom one.
      Why should the heavy dirt climb the hill up to the pump?

      Garfield
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    5. #5
      Diegar's Avatar
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      If you're planning filtration, like a sieve, you should run the bottom drain into that, below the pond surface level, before the pump. Pump impellers chop big stuff into small stuff and none of that is any good for the bio filter.

      But to answer your question, gradual slope is best
      "If you want good clean high quality oats you must pay a fair price for them. If however you chose to purchase oats that have already gone thru the horse, they come a little cheaper." - Dick Benbow

    6. #6
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      Make sure that the line does not go up and down as this will trap air in the line. a gradual slope up is the best.

      Yorkie
      A true pondaholic!
      40,000 Gallons, 45 koi




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      kimini is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      Why should the heavy dirt climb the hill up to the pump?

      Garfield
      Why should the dirt flow along a vertical pipe. As said, a gradual path works best.

    8. #8
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      Why should the dirt flow along a vertical pipe. As said, a gradual path works best.
      When you run up a hill you are out of breath.

      When you run downhill it's easy, no sweat.

      If you slope your pipe down gradually to the vertical riser, the dirt collects at the base of the riser in the 90-degree elbow section. Some dirt will be too heavy to be lifted by the

      existing velocity of the water.

      All the dirt accumulates and the water velocity increases due to the build-up of some dirt and restriction of water rushing through the narrowed opening, raising the velocity and

      making it easier to lift the heavier dirt caught up at the bottom of the riser.

      Garfield.
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      danbo is offline Senior Member
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      Given that your bottom drain is located distance 'X' below your pump, I'd argue that the dirt, leaves, and Koi crap have to rise up the same distance 'X' whether your line is sloped, horizontal or any which way in-between. The key is sufficient velocity in the line. Photo shows construction of my pond with 2 4" drains, running horizontally and then vertically upwards. My whole suction system from pond bottom drain to filter is gravity fed with pumps at exit of the main filter. Big leaves go up that 2m vertical line I can tell you...

      Pic seems to be rotated 90 deg. The ladder in the photo is vertical.

      Name:  20131216_180646.jpg
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    10. #10
      ricshaw is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by danbo View Post
      Given that your bottom drain is located distance 'X' below your pump, I'd argue that the dirt, leaves, and Koi crap have to rise up the same distance 'X' whether your line is sloped, horizontal or any which way in-between. The key is sufficient velocity in the line. Photo shows construction of my pond with 2 4" drains, running horizontally and then vertically upwards. My whole suction system from pond bottom drain to filter is gravity fed with pumps at exit of the main filter. Big leaves go up that 2m vertical line I can tell you...
      How many gallons per hour to keep 4" drain pipe clean?

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    11. #11
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Why have dirt hovering in the length of the pipe run?

      Move it out. The quicker it goes the less chance of a foul up.

      I just felt it made common sense to me 20 years ago when I built my pond.

      A ball on a road runs downhill without the aid of a push, and goes on and on without any aid.

      Garfield
      Last edited by coolwon; 05-23-2018 at 04:18 PM.
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      The vast majority of waste in the water column is close to neutrally buoyant. In that case, pipe velocity is going to be more important than slope. When you look at tank design research a slope doesn't do much to move waste until it is pretty steep like you would find in a conical settling chamber.

      That said, a slight downward slope will make it easier to completely drain the pond.

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      I see there isn't a clear answer to this yet. So as a follow up question,
      Where in the BD pipe should a clean-out be placed? Near the top, close to the pump? Or down low, closer to the BD? I would guess up top is best?

    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      Why have dirt hovering in the length of the pipe run?

      Move it out. The quicker it goes the less chance of a foul up.

      I just felt it made common sense to me 20 years ago when I built my pond.

      A ball on a road runs downhill without the aid of a push, and goes on and on without any aid.

      Garfield
      So how do you get from a BD that's 6 ft deep to a sieve input that's 18" from pond level with out an incline in the pipe?
      --Steve



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      ricshaw is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by two_wheeled View Post
      I see there isn't a clear answer to this yet. So as a follow up question,
      Where in the BD pipe should a clean-out be placed? Near the top, close to the pump? Or down low, closer to the BD? I would guess up top is best?
      I am thinking my "clean-out" to be above pond water level.

      I am also planning a bypass before pump and filters for flushing out BD pipe during water changes.
      The bypass will be designed with an airlock so that the pond cannot accidentally be completely drained.


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      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      So how do you get from a BD that's 6 ft deep to a sieve input that's 18" from pond level with out an incline in the pipe?

      Draw it out, maybe you have forgotten your second short horizontal section of pipe to your to the sieve.

      My bottom drains end in a settlement tank with couplings to allow for stand pipes.

      Garfield.
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      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      Draw it out, maybe you have forgotten your second short horizontal section of pipe to your to the sieve.

      My bottom drains end in a settlement tank with couplings to allow for stand pipes.

      Garfield.
      If you have a 4 foot deep pond and a 4 foot deep settlement tank then fine..typically most ponds have a vertical pipe going into a sieve, rdf, settlement tank.. I dont feel the pipe needs to be angled though. As said proper velocity through the pipe is key. Also if you slope the the drain won't your other pipe connections not match up if they are level?

    18. #18
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      If you have a 4 foot deep pond and a 4 foot deep settlement tank then fine..typically most ponds have a vertical pipe going into a sieve, rdf, settlement tank.. I dont feel the pipe needs to be angled though. As said proper velocity through the pipe is key. Also if you slope the the drain won't your other pipe connections not match up if they are level?
      The two rdf you have owned have had side entries as far I can see.

      You run slightly down, you rise with a 90 degree, you turn 90 at the top and run horizontal to make your connections.

      Garfield.
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      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      The two rdf you have owned have had side entries as far I can see.

      You run slightly down, you rise with a 90 degree, you turn 90 at the top and run horizontal to make your connections.

      Garfield.
      What happened to our ball rolling down hill? The BE RDF's side entry port is about 12" below pond level. I'm probably missing something
      essential but maybe you could draw it out for us how you can go from an egress point in the pond that is 6 ft. below pond level and reaches
      a RDF incoming port at 12" below pond level without the pipe sloping upwards? I'm not good at riddles.
      --Steve



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    20. #20
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      What happened to our ball rolling down hill? The BE RDF's side entry port is about 12" below pond level. I'm probably missing something
      essential but maybe you could draw it out for us how you can go from an egress point in the pond that is 6 ft. below pond level and reaches
      a RDF incoming port at 12" below pond level without the pipe sloping upwards? I'm not good at riddles.
      Your teeth scare me!

      Garfield
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