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    Thread: Why is my koi color fading

    1. #1
      nguyenphilip is offline Senior Member
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      Why is my koi color fading

      Okay guys, my koi color is fading for some reason. I check my water quality and my pH: 6.5, Ammonia: 0.25, Nitrite: 0 and my Phosphate: 0. My pond water temperature is 65 degree, I feed my koi with Hikari Staple mix with Hikari Saki Growth. Please let me know what can I do okay. Thanks

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      Quote Originally Posted by nguyenphilip View Post
      Okay guys, my koi color is fading for some reason. I check my water quality and my pH: 6.5, Ammonia: 0.25, Nitrite: 0 and my Phosphate: 0. My pond water temperature is 65 degree, I feed my koi with Hikari Staple mix with Hikari Saki Growth. Please let me know what can I do okay. Thanks
      Your water is currently acidic. You need to test your KH/alkalinity value and post the results. Anything under 7.0 pH is on the acid side of the spectrum.
      Beyond that, what age are the koi and what is your water temperature? Stress is often related to Beni loss.
      Genetics are always a factor and a sudden temperature change can do this with tosai.
      I suspect it is a water quality issue though given your very low pH. I further suspect that the ammonia reading you are showing is because there is not enough KH to be converting the ammonia easily.

      Get a good drop kit, asap, and test for KH. I recommend API.

      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    3. #3
      nguyenphilip is offline Senior Member
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      Thanks Marilyn, I will go to the store and get the kit now.

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      I look forward to hearing the results.

      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    5. #5
      OCkoiFan's Avatar
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      Also Nitrate
      How often do you do waterchange?
      What color fading? Is is expanding but still have some elasticity or want to go away soon?
      M.Nguyen


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      nguyenphilip is offline Senior Member
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      Hi Marilyn, just come back from Petco trying to get the KH test kit, but they don't have anything at all. The only kit they got is API 5 in 1 test strips for salt and fresh water kit. So I did buy the kit and not really sure work for the koi pond? But the KH carbonate Hardness reading is 40 which not sure it's right or not? But anyway, have to order the KH/alkalinity kit on ebay or something.

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      nguyenphilip is offline Senior Member
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      I change my water 1 per week, the color fading the most is black. But I got 1 koi which is kohaku which loosing some red color also.

    8. #8
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      KH has to be over 100 to prevent PH swings
      I recommend using baking soda and bring the KH level up slowly everyday and add only in the evening to avoid photosynthesis
      There is a calculator right on the top of the forum to calculate the amount of baking soda
      Also in the emergency stickies in the emergency forum would have a section about KH
      You can order a master test kit or Or KH saparately from our vendor Cascade Pond Supplies

      Black fading is fine but beni fading is a problem
      M.Nguyen


    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by nguyenphilip View Post
      Hi Marilyn, just come back from Petco trying to get the KH test kit, but they don't have anything at all. The only kit they got is API 5 in 1 test strips for salt and fresh water kit. So I did buy the kit and not really sure work for the koi pond? But the KH carbonate Hardness reading is 40 which not sure it's right or not? But anyway, have to order the KH/alkalinity kit on ebay or something.
      That gives you some time to get an API drop kit via Amazon or Walmart. Either can ship them to you. It is often cheaper to get the GH/KH combo but even the KH alone is an improvement.
      Your KH is low and as OC recommended, it should be no lower than 100ppm or if you have a bead filter, run it at 150ppm.
      Bind your ammonia in the pond with Cloram-X, Safe or Prime and then add enough baking soda to get to the proper range. The nitrification cycle (ammonia to nitrite to nitrate) expends the KH in a pond so this is a value you must maintain. Your ammonia reading and low pH were a big red flag for a low KH value.
      Don't feed them until you are back at zero ammonia for a couple of days. Your filter isn't keeping up with ammonia production yet but raising the KH should help bring it back online.

      Btw, there is a koi calculator at the top left from the main page here on Koiphen. Select alkalinity or KH, I can't remember how it is listed here, enter your gallons and the amount you need to raise it. It will tell you how much to use. You can get it at the big box stores. We usually have some on hand from Costco.

      Quote Originally Posted by nguyenphilip View Post
      I change my water 1 per week, the color fading the most is black. But I got 1 koi which is kohaku which loosing some red color also.
      Black (Sumi) fading is very common as the water warms particularly on younger koi. Even on older koi, the colors are most intense in cooler water with less feeding. It is why koi shows in Japan are not held during the growing months.
      Regarding Beni loss, my previous post pretty much covers my answer.

      While you're at it, test your source water for all the same things you tested your pond for. That gives you a reference for what happens when you do water changes.
      Last edited by Marilyn; 05-21-2018 at 10:28 PM.

      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

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      nguyenphilip is offline Senior Member
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      Thank you guys very much, I have some baking soda at home now. Right now is pretty dark outside, I will do it tomorrow.

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      I use a lot of BS due to my water source having very little KH. I get 5lb bags of BS at Costco and 10 lbs lasts about 2 to 3 months.
      Need more Koi

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      Quote Originally Posted by davidjensen View Post
      I use a lot of BS due to my water source having very little KH. I get 5lb bags of BS at Costco and 10 lbs lasts about 2 to 3 months.
      So you use about 60 grams of baking soda per day. How many koi? Me, I use 25 grams per day; 5 grams per koi to keep KH of 7-8 drops.
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      I measure KH once a month or so and now that I have a bead filter I keep the KH above 150 so I'm adding more than what I did last year. When I do water changes (about 400 gallons) I mix 3 cups +- of BS with clay and distribute about the pond. Pond is 2900 gallons with 9 Koi, 3 are jumbo, 2 are large and 3 are 16" and one is 13". The number of fish has little to do with the KH in my pond as my source water is very soft with KH below 40 and GH at about 5. The source water has to be corrected and since I do water changes weekly I just keep with the same amounts and when I do test I'm usually in the ball park. With the KH above 100 my PH stays stable at 8.3.
      Need more Koi

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      nguyenphilip is offline Senior Member
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      So once I get my pond to the correct KH or close to the level KH recommend, will my koi get their color back or not?

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      Quote Originally Posted by nguyenphilip View Post
      So once I get my pond to the correct KH or close to the level KH recommend, will my koi get their color back or not?
      Well seems like all the experts are too busy to care for the newbie

      Here’s my thoughts from a few years of koi keeping

      Black or sumi can go and comes back which is normal due to growth/hibernation/temperature depend

      Red patches or Beni is different the can expanding/stretching from growth and show hoshi but still has elasticity and will go back to normal condition in winter/spring mode. This is what we want in the beni of a youthful koi

      Stress is the number one factor from beni fading and one that area are gone then it is gone for good
      -Low Water qualities
      -ph swings etcs
      -high nitrate not enough water change
      - heat, high water temperature
      -sudden change in temp
      Lower quality foods (this is my opinion so nobody has to agree)
      -predators, netting and handling
      Also the quality/genes is a factor too
      My 2 cents
      Ps Philip
      this is more like 1-3 years young koi from my observation bigger koi and near mature koi could be a little differ in sumi stability
      Last edited by OCkoiFan; 05-24-2018 at 12:39 AM.
      M.Nguyen


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      nguyenphilip is offline Senior Member
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      Thank you very much Mitch.

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      nguyenphilip is offline Senior Member
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      Hello, just got my GH & KH test kit yesterday. It's take 8 drop of the KH from blue to yellow, so it's about 142 ppm. So I think Marilyn say about 150 ppm if I'm running a bead filter which I am. So you guys how often should I check my KH or GH?

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      Quote Originally Posted by nguyenphilip View Post
      Hello, just got my GH & KH test kit yesterday. It's take 8 drop of the KH from blue to yellow, so it's about 142 ppm. So I think Marilyn say about 150 ppm if I'm running a bead filter which I am. So you guys how often should I check my KH or GH?
      Until you determine a guideline by testing with some regularity, it is hard to say.
      The factors you need to determine this are:

      1) are water changes decreasing or adding to the KH value (test your source water)
      2) the amount you are feeding correlates to how much KH is expended. More food equals more baking soda needed.
      3) heavy rainfall will also deplete your KH. Lots of people will add baking soda before a big rainstorm to make sure the KH stays in the right zone

      So test it weekly and increase the KH to maintain to 150ppm. You'll need to monitor it and your readings will give you the answers you seek.

      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

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      Won't adding baking soda raise the PH?
      What is it raises to over 9.0 in attempt to get the KH where you want it?

    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by Torre View Post
      Won't adding baking soda raise the PH?
      What is it raises to over 9.0 in attempt to get the KH where you want it?
      Baking soda has a pH of 8.3 so it will only raise it if it's lower than that. It shouldn't raise it more than 8.3
      when you add it to raise the KH.
      --Steve



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