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    Thread: Advice on Koi Purchase

    1. #1
      Asagibottom is offline Member
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      Advice on Koi Purchase

      Hello there, as the title suggests I'm seeking some advice on a koi purchase. If you know Asagi well and could spare a few minutes to look over some pictures for me, I'd really appreciate it if you'd pm me. Thanks and again, it's an Asagi. Looking for advice on body conformation and color in regards to the worth of the koi and potential breeding?
      Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out. Proverbs 20:5 Asv

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      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Hi Asagibottom, post the pix. You've shown true grit in the "judge my koi" arena so take a chance. I'm unschooled in most koi types but i really like asagi, have a few home bred guys and am willing to play.



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      Okay, with hesitation, here it goes I'm thinking of purchasing this Koi. Please don't buy it out from under me, you slime coated fish nappers Anyway, all the questions from the OP for this fish. If you can help, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thinking of breeding it with other Asagi. This is probably the best looking Asagi that I could find in my price range (whitest whites, strong beni, pretty blue eyes, nice size and body shape for a 1 year old). Need to know if the fish is worth $180 and if anyone has any educated predictions of what this fish would look like in say.. 3 more years? Basically, in short, what do you think of this fish?


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      Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out. Proverbs 20:5 Asv

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      I'm not going to steal it! lol. (u funny, asagi bottom.) I don't have an opinion on this fish. but i will tell you a quick story that is more or less on topic. i needed a shusui female because the one i bought jumped the tank. i went to a good retailer who only traded in japanese fish and their offspring produced on their premises. they had a fish for me. female. 22" long. an asagi/shusui. one parent of each type and said it came from sakai with a matsanasuke blood line (don't make me look up spelling.) $1,200! came with a money-back guarantee. seller, "I stand by this fish." i bought her. she was a dog. friends said, "Ask us before you buy, Max!" One friend said, "This fish should have been culled." Some of you are laffin' right now. She has very dirty skin, foreshortened face, and her zipper is a bit sloppy. I can't get rid of her. She's a fish only I can love and I'm barely fond of her!
      so.
      See if you can get some votes up or down on this koi and then, follow your heart.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
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    5. #5
      OCkoiFan's Avatar
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      Save your money for better koi
      Here is a good thread
      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...sagi-or-Shusui
      M.Nguyen


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      I don't know that you could even lable this one Asagie with confidence.

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      Quote Originally Posted by FRK View Post
      I don't know that you could even lable this one Asagie with confidence.
      They call it Asagi/Goshiki
      Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out. Proverbs 20:5 Asv

    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koigrl View Post
      I'm not going to steal it! lol. (u funny, asagi bottom.) I don't have an opinion on this fish. but i will tell you a quick story that is more or less on topic. i needed a shusui female because the one i bought jumped the tank. i went to a good retailer who only traded in japanese fish and their offspring produced on their premises. they had a fish for me. female. 22" long. an asagi/shusui. one parent of each type and said it came from sakai with a matsanasuke blood line (don't make me look up spelling.) $1,200! came with a money-back guarantee. seller, "I stand by this fish." i bought her. she was a dog. friends said, "Ask us before you buy, Max!" One friend said, "This fish should have been culled." Some of you are laffin' right now. She has very dirty skin, foreshortened face, and her zipper is a bit sloppy. I can't get rid of her. She's a fish only I can love and I'm barely fond of her!
      so.
      See if you can get some votes up or down on this koi and then, follow your heart.
      You make a very good point! I would hate to have a fish I didn't care for.. I have a hard time culling fry as it is! Just sold over 100 baby Hi Uturi/Goromo for $2 a piece- culls and all! Very good story though and definitely checking myself here. I've been looking at this fish for quite some time and just can't seem to find a pretty white face like that one anywhere else.
      That being said, I think this booger is a little more established being 12" and a little over 1 year old.. or no?
      Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out. Proverbs 20:5 Asv

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      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      Save your money for better koi
      Here is a good thread
      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...sagi-or-Shusui
      Well, I'm unfortunately never going to be able to purchase a $500+ dollar fish.. My wife simply would not go for it.. However, I can buy multiple $200 fish so the only way for me to get a good quality fish is likely to breed into it. Which is kind of what I plan to do anyway. Also, almost every attribute he described in that thread matches this fish (aside from the Goshiki and the red eyes).
      Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out. Proverbs 20:5 Asv

    10. #10
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      I’d name it “Ochisagi” if I bred it hehehe
      M.Nguyen


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      NOT FOR BREEDING, JUST my opinion.

    12. #12
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      OH HEEEEELLLL NO!
      that fish is about as worthless as they come if you want to breed asagi.
      There is not one danm thing right with that fish. and I mean that. You better stop buying fish completely if you think that is a hundred dollar asagi. Seriously.
      So what do you look for in an asagi.... A white head? THAT ONE DOES NOT HAVE A WHITE HEAD. It has a white nose.
      A thick tail tube? That 12 inch fish is already showing it has a thinner tailtube than abdomen right at the break between the two. It's body sucks
      The red on the abdomen separating and not overpowering the blue in a young fish. I won't even type what that worthless mutt has.
      But... BUT! You know what an asagi must have? A perfect scale netting..or at least something close.... the scales in front of the dorsal look like they were poured out of a cracker box into a bowl. that is some seriously Chitty scalation.... the interaction of the whoite and the blue is what makes an asagi.
      and that dark a fish is only going to get darker(black). A light blue young fish is what you want.
      Now, quit buying fish. Period. The body, color, scales, and pattern all out right suck on that fish.
      But when you do, if your wife henpecks you for spending money by allowing you to buy multiple two hundred dollar fish but no $500 fish, then buy 2 cheap ones and one $500 one. And tell her you got all three for $550. And immediately kill the two cheap ones.
      I try and stop people like you all the time...Your pond space is limited. You do not have to have it at capacity. And you shouldn't. If you have a fish for every two thousand gallons then knock yourself out, you are doing it right. but if you only have a few thousand gallons then each fish is very important. And you should only have about 5-9 koi in a ten thousand gallon pond. And less than 20 no matter how big the pond. I Have 16 in my 51,000 gallon tank. It is probably too many. Why? because your eye can only wrap itself around so much at one time.... Your eye should be held by a fish for at least 30 seconds. you shouldn't be interrupted.... just look at that one fish...then relax....then allow yourself to be caught by another.... Plus there needs to be a LOT of empty space in your pond to give the koi some background. Fish stacked on fish is what they do at a fish market.
      QUIT BUYING FISH TO BREED TILL YOU DON"T NEED ANOTHER OPINION.
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      OH HEEEEELLLL NO!
      that fish is about as worthless as they come if you want to breed asagi.
      There is not one danm thing right with that fish. and I mean that. You better stop buying fish completely if you think that is a hundred dollar asagi. Seriously.
      So what do you look for in an asagi.... A white head? THAT ONE DOES NOT HAVE A WHITE HEAD. It has a white nose.
      A thick tail tube? That 12 inch fish is already showing it has a thinner tailtube than abdomen right at the break between the two. It's body sucks
      The red on the abdomen separating and not overpowering the blue in a young fish. I won't even type what that worthless mutt has.
      But... BUT! You know what an asagi must have? A perfect scale netting..or at least something close.... the scales in front of the dorsal look like they were poured out of a cracker box into a bowl. that is some seriously Chitty scalation.... the interaction of the whoite and the blue is what makes an asagi.
      and that dark a fish is only going to get darker(black). A light blue young fish is what you want.
      Now, quit buying fish. Period. The body, color, scales, and pattern all out right suck on that fish.
      But when you do, if your wife henpecks you for spending money by allowing you to buy multiple two hundred dollar fish but no $500 fish, then buy 2 cheap ones and one $500 one. And tell her you got all three for $550. And immediately kill the two cheap ones.
      I try and stop people like you all the time...Your pond space is limited. You do not have to have it at capacity. And you shouldn't. If you have a fish for every two thousand gallons then knock yourself out, you are doing it right. but if you only have a few thousand gallons then each fish is very important. And you should only have about 5-9 koi in a ten thousand gallon pond. And less than 20 no matter how big the pond. I Have 16 in my 51,000 gallon tank. It is probably too many. Why? because your eye can only wrap itself around so much at one time.... Your eye should be held by a fish for at least 30 seconds. you shouldn't be interrupted.... just look at that one fish...then relax....then allow yourself to be caught by another.... Plus there needs to be a LOT of empty space in your pond to give the koi some background. Fish stacked on fish is what they do at a fish market.
      QUIT BUYING FISH TO BREED TILL YOU DON"T NEED ANOTHER OPINION.
      As harsh as this critique might come across I have to agree. In our case we too spent some money on some Blackwater Creek fish about two years ago when we were first starting to take our pond filtration seriously and had set up an indoor heated tank for growing on and wintering. The less expensive fish were good because we could experiment without fear of losing a lot of money in fish if we happen to lose some for whatever reason. Fast forward two years and we have gotten very good at caring for our water and subsequently for our fish (thanks to everybody on this forum) but I have also gotten better at purchasing much better quality Koi from reputable dealers and we are now in the process of completely turning over our stock. Luckily my brother in law has a pond and lives a few blocks away so we have given him 8 of the "domestic" koi this year. Next year we already are planning to sell or more likely give away another 10 of our early koi in order to make room for our better and frankly more expensive koi we have growing now. At the end of the day you really do have only so many gallons of water and filtration/bio capacity so be smart about what you buy.

      As you get deeper into the hobby you will be exposed to better looking koi and will want them for the same qualities that make them so sought after. From my experience Blackwater Creek has koi for sale that shouldn't have even made it past the first few cullings and are definitely not worth the money. Take your time. Find some reputable dealers on this forum and when the time is right get a fish that at the very least has potential to be a decent representation of it's variety.
      Last edited by rayrod2030; 06-06-2018 at 01:36 PM.

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      I find it amusing that you mention Blackwater as not having good koi. I help cull for blackwater. I see the gambit in their spawnings. Blackwater does not cull to have a premier level only, but supplies koi to many levels of the hobby. Perhaps your eye has improved to the point that you too could pick decent koi out of what blackwater offers. I can. And if not for Blackwater most people would never start in the hobby.
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      and by the way...if an asagi like this one showed up in a blackwater spawn we would keep it...and sell it for $30 to a person that just wants it for what it is..... a thirty dollar fish.
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    16. #16
      Asagibottom is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      and by the way...if an asagi like this one showed up in a blackwater spawn we would keep it...and sell it for $30 to a person that just wants it for what it is..... a thirty dollar fish.

      Blackwater Creek is selling for $180..
      Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out. Proverbs 20:5 Asv

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      OH HEEEEELLLL NO!
      that fish is about as worthless as they come if you want to breed asagi.
      There is not one danm thing right with that fish. and I mean that. You better stop buying fish completely if you think that is a hundred dollar asagi. Seriously.
      So what do you look for in an asagi.... A white head? THAT ONE DOES NOT HAVE A WHITE HEAD. It has a white nose.
      A thick tail tube? That 12 inch fish is already showing it has a thinner tailtube than abdomen right at the break between the two. It's body sucks
      The red on the abdomen separating and not overpowering the blue in a young fish. I won't even type what that worthless mutt has.
      But... BUT! You know what an asagi must have? A perfect scale netting..or at least something close.... the scales in front of the dorsal look like they were poured out of a cracker box into a bowl. that is some seriously Chitty scalation.... the interaction of the whoite and the blue is what makes an asagi.
      and that dark a fish is only going to get darker(black). A light blue young fish is what you want.
      Now, quit buying fish. Period. The body, color, scales, and pattern all out right suck on that fish.
      But when you do, if your wife henpecks you for spending money by allowing you to buy multiple two hundred dollar fish but no $500 fish, then buy 2 cheap ones and one $500 one. And tell her you got all three for $550. And immediately kill the two cheap ones.
      I try and stop people like you all the time...Your pond space is limited. You do not have to have it at capacity. And you shouldn't. If you have a fish for every two thousand gallons then knock yourself out, you are doing it right. but if you only have a few thousand gallons then each fish is very important. And you should only have about 5-9 koi in a ten thousand gallon pond. And less than 20 no matter how big the pond. I Have 16 in my 51,000 gallon tank. It is probably too many. Why? because your eye can only wrap itself around so much at one time.... Your eye should be held by a fish for at least 30 seconds. you shouldn't be interrupted.... just look at that one fish...then relax....then allow yourself to be caught by another.... Plus there needs to be a LOT of empty space in your pond to give the koi some background. Fish stacked on fish is what they do at a fish market.
      QUIT BUYING FISH TO BREED TILL YOU DON"T NEED ANOTHER OPINION.
      Thank you very much for your passionate response. Kinda what I was looking for. I've since dismissed the idea of even buying this koi. Rainblood mentioned something about gill plates a few weeks ago that sharpened my eye and so I since counted this koi out of the question. I've got a lot to learn but I do believe I've bought the right koi. I will post them here later so you can all see (I just xfered them to my 10' intext pool and should have taken photos but I didn't). I previously had a Aka Bekko *that we bred from 2 other bekko and sold* and a doitsu mutt from petsmart that my wife wanted. Now we have those and...

      1 8" Doitsu Soragoi
      1 6" Gin Rin Asagi
      1 9" Longfin Asagi
      2 6" Longfin Asagi
      1 5" Longfin Asagi
      4 6" Shusui
      1 5" Longfin Hana Shusui
      I prefer standard fin koi but they were very good looking fish and I'm confident they will make an excellent broodstock as well as a collection for our new pond.


      And I'm confident they fit the bill on all you describe Lukef, even if you don't believe it offhand. I'll post pictures when I can get better ones.
      Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out. Proverbs 20:5 Asv

    18. #18
      Asagibottom is offline Member
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      And I forgot to mention that they all came from different sources.. every Shusui and Asagi came from a different spawn to make a more rich bloodline. From 5 or 6 different sources. Which made shipping quite pricey $$$.. but worth it.
      Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out. Proverbs 20:5 Asv

    19. #19
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      I watched some extremely long videos of Japanese koi farmers culling asagi and Shusui.. just hours of watching them scoop 3-5" fish for keeping and otherwise. I think these would have made past at least their 1st and 2nd culling. They may not be show quality standard koi, but I think I may be able to produce a few in my lifetime with these guys. Better pictures coming soon.

      I do plan on selling a couple of the longfin asagi and purchasing a really nice standard fin asagi someday soon. Then I'll be finished with my collection
      Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out. Proverbs 20:5 Asv

    20. #20
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      AB, what did you learn about culling asagi/shusui? This is not a test i just want to know. I have a wicked love for my young kids and am currently running a no-cull shelter.
      Here's a baby ki asagi. This is his world debut.
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      Last edited by Koigrl; 06-12-2018 at 06:52 PM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2013

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