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    Thread: SAP will not go away, help

    1. #1
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      SAP will not go away, help

      I lost several fish over the winter and a few recently. I now have 1 that remains that has a serious SAP infection.

      The one with the serious SAP issue has been in a quarantine tank for just over 2 weeks. The first weekend I treated with three doses of proform C, with the first dose the tank had all new/clean water. I did a 25% water change before the next two doses. The following weekend I did it again, I had lost one of the fish so I was down to 2. Before dosing I used a brush with salt to remove as much of the SAP as I could. I then put peroxide on the affected areas and denture powder. Did 25% water changes prior to each dose and did that 3 times. I lost one more. The ,last one grew a bunch of the SAP back, I used a brush and salt, on the back half of the fish a bunch of the skin started coming off. I treated with iodine then denture powder, did a 50% water change and not sure what to do with him next. I need ideas. I don't feel like the proform C is doing anything.

      I the pond, the remaining fish were looking good. Very active and eating (it's finally warmed up here!) Yesterday I noticed a couple of fish with brown fluffy spots. I netted this morning, looks like SAP. I treated with salt ad a brush, I put iodine and neosporin on the infected areas after getting the SAP off. I covered with denture powder and released back into the pond. I'll keep a eye on them but I (probably foolishly) feel like they may be okay.

      I also have some really nice fish in my other quarantine tank, I was going to put them into the pond today (been four weeks) but I'm afraid to.

      1. What can I do for the poor fish (family favorite BTW) with the skin that's falling off?
      2. Anything I should have done differently or should do/watch for, for the two in the pond?
      3. Do I just keep the nice fish in quarantine until some time in the future and if so when can I release them?

    2. #2
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      Oh I forgot to mention I had treated the entire pond with the 3 doses of Proform C a couple of weeks prior to pulling the three into the hospital tank. So the one that remains has been subjected to 3 different treatments of 3 doses.

    3. #3
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      If it truly is SAP, Doc Johnson states in his book that PP is the treatment of choice for him, with two treatments 3 days apart, the first at 3ppm and the second at 2ppm, each held full concentration for 10 to 12 hours. The only way I know to hold the full concentration is to use a method of measuring concentration is with the Sensafe Permanganate Test Strips https://sensafe.com/sensafe-permanganate/, which can be gotten from http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...te-Test-Strips

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    4. #4
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      It could be Epistylis, apparently they look pretty similar. Look under a microscope should be easy to identify epistylis.
      If it is, you can try salt to .5 for 14 days. You'll need a salt meter or a TDS pen; should be cheap and easy to get. Start at 3 teaspoons per gallon then keep adding to get a reading of about .5 ppm.
      Keep the water clean with regular water changes with a binder, but maintain salt level by adding salt. This is in the quarantine tank.
      There is something stressing your fishes. Probably poor water quality, overcrowding, organic/mulm buildup; these things go hand in hand of course.
      Can you provide a picture of your fish and set up?
      Last edited by KoiRun; 05-13-2018 at 01:24 AM.
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    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      It could be Epistylis, apparently they look pretty similar. Look under a microscope should be easy to identify epistylis.
      If it is, you can try salt to .5 for 14 days. You'll need a salt meter or a TDS pen; should be cheap and easy to get. Start at 3 teaspoons per gallon then keep adding to get a reading of about .5 ppm.
      Keep the water clean with regular water changes with a binder, but maintain salt level by adding salt. This is in the quarantine tank.
      There is something stressing your fishes. Probably poor water quality, overcrowding, organic/mulm buildup; these things go hand in hand of course.
      Can you provide a picture of your fish and set up?
      Should be .5% (5 ppt)

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
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    6. #6
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      I'm traveling right now so can't take a picture. I don't have a microscope but will order one. Definitely not overcrowded, I had 13 fish, about 11" each in a 8k pond. Water in the quarentine is clean and I've been doing water changes.

    7. #7
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      If it truly is SAP, Doc Johnson states in his book that PP is the treatment of choice for him, with two treatments 3 days apart, the first at 3ppm and the second at 2ppm, each held full concentration for 10 to 12 hours. The only way I know to hold the full concentration is to use a method of measuring concentration is with the Sensafe Permanganate Test Strips https://sensafe.com/sensafe-permanganate/, which can be gotten from http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...te-Test-Strips
      What is PP? Where do I get it? A link is preferred
      Last edited by MovingTarget; 05-15-2018 at 11:13 PM.

    8. #8
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MovingTarget View Post
      What is PP? Where do I get it? A link is preferred
      Potassium Permanganate

      http://www.cascade-pond-supply.com/P...ate-p-586.html
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

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    9. #9
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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    10. #10
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MovingTarget View Post
      I think so... as long as the ingredients don't list any additives it should do the trick.
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    11. #11
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      I got my microscope, it's not Epistylis, looks like SAP. I'm going to Lowes to get some PP.

    12. #12
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      I think so... as long as the ingredients don't list any additives it should do the trick.
      I’m guessing this shouldn’t be used. Says includes sodium sulfate.

    13. #13
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      I used that brand before. No problem.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    14. #14
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      I used that brand before. No problem.

      Thanks Rich, how much should I add per 100 gallons?

    15. #15
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      I like to measure to be sure it is staying hot enough. The test strips will measure nicely and I try to keep between 2ppm and 3 ppm. I start with 1 gram per 100 gallons and then add as needed to maintain the concentration. It is consumed by organics in the pond so very hard to keep the concentration up, particularly if you are running it through the filters, which I did.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

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