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  • Results 1 to 14 of 14

    Thread: First time koi owners and first time pond owners

    1. #1
      foothill999 is offline Senior Member
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      First time koi owners and first time pond owners

      Pond finished yesterday and cam across someone needing to clear hiks pond (no time for them). We rehomed his 4 large koi and 2 medium ones. I am in love with them already! I have no idea what they are or how old, but they looks pretty and so far healthy in the new home. I was told the white and black shinny one is full of eggs.
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      Last edited by foothill999; 05-01-2018 at 03:15 AM.

    2. #2
      My2butterflies is offline Senior Member
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      The pond is beautiful. But are those bigger flat rocks in the water removable? They look very sharp. If that is an eggy female and you have any males she could get very hurt on those rocks.

      I have round stones on the border of my pond and my biggest female manages to get scrapped on them on and off all summer.

    3. #3
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is offline Administrator ~ WWKC BOD ~
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      I don't know how familiar you are with ponds, but if you haven't already, go buy a test kit that has as a minimum tests for KH (carbonate hardness), high range pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Preferably the API drop type test kits, the dip strips are almost worthless. The cycle is defined as fish expel ammonia from the gills, and ammonia is caustic, burning the fish. The filters when established will convert the ammonia to nitrite. and nitrite will enter the blood stream across the gills, converting red blood cells that carry oxygen to brown blood cells which do not carry oxygen. The filter will then convert the nitrite to nitrate, which is relatively safe. During the start up, you should have an Ammonia Alert Card to let you know if the ammonia is toxic or converted to ammonium, non-toxic. If the ammonia is toxic, then you need to use Prime, Safe, or Cloram-X to neutralize the ammonia to ammonium. Once the filters start working, you will detect nitrite and for that the addition of salt at 1 pound per hundred gallons will be needed to protect the fish from the nitrites. As you start to see nitrates, you will know that the 6 or 8 week cycle is nearing an end.

      BTW, do you know the volume of your pond, actual water volume? If not measured when the pond was filled, you can use a salt pen or TDS meter to get a salinity reading now, and then when the salt is added for nitrites, using the calculator at the top of the page, you will be able to calculate the volume very closely. It is a very good idea to know actual volume as any treatments needed in the future need that volume to keep from overdosing the pond. Most people have been told or guessed a volume for their pond that is sometimes over twice the actual volume and then with the rock in the pond, if the volume was calculated on the basis of the size of the hole, the rock is filling part of that volume, which can make the error even larger.

      Welcome to Koiphen and enjoy the ride.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    4. #4
      foothill999 is offline Senior Member
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      They are not removable (cemented in we stand on them) and I would hate for her to get hurt. Is there anything I can do to keep her safe, maybe something that I can install on the edges of the slate. I don't have a backup pond except a 150 gallon tub with filtration that my small koi are in for the next 2 weeks. I have been reading up on spawning and I had no idea how agressive and rough it can be. Hard to imagine since they are all so friendly and calm. I am very new at this and would be devastated if she was hurt by one of the other fish which I am going to guess at least 1 of the 5 others is a male.

    5. #5
      foothill999 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      I don't know how familiar you are with ponds, but if you haven't already, go buy a test kit that has as a minimum tests for KH (carbonate hardness), high range pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Preferably the API drop type test kits, the dip strips are almost worthless. The cycle is defined as fish expel ammonia from the gills, and ammonia is caustic, burning the fish. The filters when established will convert the ammonia to nitrite. and nitrite will enter the blood stream across the gills, converting red blood cells that carry oxygen to brown blood cells which do not carry oxygen. The filter will then convert the nitrite to nitrate, which is relatively safe. During the start up, you should have an Ammonia Alert Card to let you know if the ammonia is toxic or converted to ammonium, non-toxic. If the ammonia is toxic, then you need to use Prime, Safe, or Cloram-X to neutralize the ammonia to ammonium. Once the filters start working, you will detect nitrite and for that the addition of salt at 1 pound per hundred gallons will be needed to protect the fish from the nitrites. As you start to see nitrates, you will know that the 6 or 8 week cycle is nearing an end.

      BTW, do you know the volume of your pond, actual water volume? If not measured when the pond was filled, you can use a salt pen or TDS meter to get a salinity reading now, and then when the salt is added for nitrites, using the calculator at the top of the page, you will be able to calculate the volume very closely. It is a very good idea to know actual volume as any treatments needed in the future need that volume to keep from overdosing the pond. Most people have been told or guessed a volume for their pond that is sometimes over twice the actual volume and then with the rock in the pond, if the volume was calculated on the basis of the size of the hole, the rock is filling part of that volume, which can make the error even larger.

      Welcome to Koiphen and enjoy the ride.




      Thank you! I will order one on amazon tonight. My pond builder only tested PH that I know of and said it was safe to add the fish. He had me salt the pond and I ordered a salt meter. The upper pond is 11XX and the lower is 22XX by his meter when filling so around 3400 gallon total since they flow together. He had me add 10 pound of Mortons pure salt (blue and white lowes bag no additives) tonight and said to add 10 pounds a day for about 3 or 4 days. I have to double check but I think he said 10 parts per 1000 is what my goal was. He recommended this since the fish are new and not from my pond and mentioned it would help any case they had parasites. Is there a sure way to know when she will spawn and I can move her to the upper pond so she doesn't get hurt by the males. I was a bit excited to see if a few babies would make it but now as I have looked into the process more it seems she could get pretty hurt, there is quite a few flagstone shelfs in there.

    6. #6
      foothill999 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by My2butterflies View Post
      The pond is beautiful. But are those bigger flat rocks in the water removable? They look very sharp. If that is an eggy female and you have any males she could get very hurt on those rocks.

      I have round stones on the border of my pond and my biggest female manages to get scrapped on them on and off all summer.
      They are not removable, here ia better picName:  2018-05-01 18.53.15 - Copy.jpg
Views: 198
Size:  248.7 KB.Name:  2018-05-01 18.53.15 - Copy.jpg
Views: 198
Size:  248.7 KB Name:  2018-05-01 18.53.15 - Copy.jpg
Views: 198
Size:  248.7 KB

    7. #7
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      As for the salt, wait until you have the salt pen before adding any more. The differential between the salt level when you start and the salt level following the addition will tell you the actual volume of the system. The bigger the amount of salt going in between the initial reading and the final reading, the more accurate the volume calculation. His value of desired salinity is what you will need for protecting the fish during the nitrite spike, portion of the cycle.

      The rocks in your pond make it look pretty for now, but.... Rocks interfere with the circulation of water which is needed to move the solid wastes to a good collection point from removal. As a result the pond will need to be drained every year and pressure washed to remove the debris that accumulates down in the depths. If you look at most of the ponds on this site, you will see bottom drains and no rocks, as the rocks increase maintenance. If the washing of the debris from down in the rocks is not done, in two or three years, you will find the waste has gone toxic and fish start having serious problems and deaths. Again, the pond is very pretty, but will require serious maintenance.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    8. #8
      foothill999 is offline Senior Member
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      [QUOTE=RichToyBox;2670111]As for the salt, wait until you have the salt pen before adding any more. The differential between the salt level when you start and the salt level following the addition will tell you the actual volume of the system. The bigger the amount of salt going in between the initial reading and the final reading, the more accurate the volume calculation. His value of desired salinity is what you will need for protecting the fish during the nitrite spike, portion of the cycle.

      The rocks in your pond make it look pretty for now, but.... Rocks interfere with the circulation of water which is needed to move the solid wastes to a good collection point from removal. As a result the pond will need to be drained every year and pressure washed to remove the debris that accumulates down in the depths. If you look at most of the ponds on this site, you will see bottom drains and no rocks, as the rocks increase maintenance. If the washing of the debris from down in the rocks is not done, in two or three years, you will find the waste has gone toxic and fish start having serious problems and deaths. Again, the pond is very pretty, but will require serious maintenance.[/QUOTE


      We have 2 bottom drains, and its not that big of an area, would it be wise to use a brush on a handle to push waste that settles on the bottom into the drain every now and then? The rocks are all mortared in place 1 by 1 so nothing can get in between them. The builder told me not to brush the sides and that we want a small amount of algae on the rocks to help keep a healthy environment. Thank you again.

    9. #9
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is offline Administrator ~ WWKC BOD ~
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      If the rocks are mortared, you should be fine. A sweeping of the bottom periodically to help the waste make it to the drain will be helpful.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    10. #10
      tbullard is online now Senior Member
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      What did you go with for filtration?

    11. #11
      foothill999 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by tbullard View Post
      What did you go with for filtration?
      Setup is 1 bottom drain in each the upper and lower pond, savio 16" skimmer filter, and the aqua ultima 2 2000 biological filter (was suppose to be the 4000 but the corner was a tight fit and he said he could add extra media to this one and it would be ok for my pond size). Then after it water goes to the ultima it goes to a 55w UV light and then returns via waterfall. On the UV light... there is 3 pipes that return water to the waterfall and the UV is only hooked up to 1 of the 3 pipes and I am not sure why he did it that way.

    12. #12
      tbullard is online now Senior Member
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      So 2 bottom drains and a skimmer flowing to a 2500gph max filter for a 3400 gallon pond? You may be a bit under filtered for koi.

    13. #13
      foothill999 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by tbullard View Post
      So 2 bottom drains and a skimmer flowing to a 2500gph max filter for a 3400 gallon pond? You may be a bit under filtered for koi.
      And this is the motor he used Performance Pro Artesian2 1/4hp 1725 RPM Pump, 5760 GPH @ 5 Feet Head

      When I questioned him on his choice for the ultima2000 instead of the 4000 he said it was a space issue and that he could add more media to the 2000 and it and that we coul
      Would be ok. I worry that it's the weakness link in the setup and why would he put the smaller unit in there to save a couple hundred $$$. He did say if I ever have problems that he would replace it will the ultima4000 but it's not very easy to follow up. Should I insist on the 4000 unit or do you think extra media would work?

    14. #14
      tbullard is online now Senior Member
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      Can only repeat what I have read here but it is generally recommended to purchase a filter of this style in a size which is rated for double the actual gallons of your pond. Based on that the Ultima II 10,000 is what you would need.

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