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    Thread: Pike's pond/stream redo.

    1. #1
      Pike is offline Junior Member
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      Pike's pond/stream redo.

      I am in the very early stages of planning a rebuild of my koi pond. I want to add bds, skimmers, returns, and good filtration. This pond/stream is over 10 years old, rubber liner, no filtration system, rock bottom. The lower pond is 18'×15' and 29" deep in the middle. The stream is about 80' long. Currently have a submersible pump in a bucket filled with filter media.

      As it sits the water stays pretty clear except for string algae in the summer. I already removed most of the rocks from the lower pond and the upper pond leaks so I'm in the process of removing the rocks, the geniuses that built it put rocks under the liner with no padding.

      I've got a pretty good idea of how I want to fix it but any advice is appreciated. I mainly need help figuring out what to do with the stream and choosing what types of and sizing filters. I'm pretty handy so I plan on diying the filters.
      Last edited by Pike; 03-19-2018 at 06:14 PM.

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    2. #2
      Pike is offline Junior Member
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      Pictures to come as soon as I can figure out how to upload them.

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      Overall view of pond an stream.
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Last edited by Pike; 03-22-2018 at 02:57 PM.

    4. #4
      Pike is offline Junior Member
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      Pics
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      Last edited by Pike; 03-22-2018 at 03:06 PM.

    5. #5
      icu2's Avatar
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      Welcome Pike and thanks for joining Koiphen!

      Are you going to go deeper/larger surface area during the remodel?

      Here's also some help to get the pictures to post with the correct orientation:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...s-on-the-forum

      Enjoy the forum!
      --Steve



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    6. #6
      Pike is offline Junior Member
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      I definitely want to go deeper. Haven't really thought about increasing surface area but I'm not opposed to it. Thanks four the advice on the camera I'll retake the photos tomorrow.

    7. #7
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pike View Post
      I definitely want to go deeper. Haven't really thought about increasing surface area but I'm not opposed to it. Thanks four the advice on the camera I'll retake the photos tomorrow.
      No actual need to increase the dimensions but depends on you desired fish load. Depth though could definitely be improved by going deeper.
      Some very general guidelines for BD coverage is 4" aerated BD flowing 2500-3500 gph min. will be effective for about 12' diameter and a
      3" aerated BD flowing 1500-2500 gph min. will be effective for about 10' in diameter.
      BD's gravity feeding a sieve or RDF (rotating drum filter) are great places to start for upgrading pond filtration.

      Look forward to watching your dream come to life!
      --Steve



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    8. #8
      Pike is offline Junior Member
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      So two 3" dbs should work?

    9. #9
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pike View Post
      So two 3" dbs should work?
      Sure, as long as you can flow enough through them to feed the filtration at the other end. It needs to all work
      together. Wait till you have a complete plan before buying anything or else you end up with something not fitting
      the final design.

      Another thing to think about is with gravity fed filtration your filter(s) will need their tops just above pond level (inches),
      so if it's a ground level pond, your filtration will need to be dug into a "pit" to facilitate the filters and pumps.

      Looks like you have a beautiful setting btw.
      --Steve



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    10. #10
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      We're up on a mountain in tennessee. The yard slopes down away from the pond. I'm thinking about putting the filters over in the woods where they'll be outta sight and at the right level. It's about 30' away from the pond. Would that be to far to gravity flow?

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    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pike View Post
      We're up on a mountain in tennessee. The yard slopes down away from the pond. I'm thinking about putting the filters over in the woods where they'll be outta sight and at the right level. It's about 30' away from the pond. Would that be to far to gravity flow?
      Not at all... should be fine. It looked pretty flat in the pics but I know it can be deceiving.
      --Steve



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    12. #12
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      Does anyone have suggestions on what to do with the stream? I have a lot of trees around and it fills up with leaves.
      Last edited by Pike; 03-22-2018 at 03:14 PM.

    13. #13
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      This is the upper pond that is leaking.
      That big pile of stone was stacked up against the house for a "waterfall".
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    14. #14
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      If I mortar in all the rocks in the stream, will a high flow rate keep most leaves and debris flushed to the bottom? Would it depend on the angle of the slope?

    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pike View Post
      If I mortar in all the rocks in the stream, will a high flow rate keep most leaves and debris flushed to the bottom? Would it depend on the angle of the slope?
      Honestly I doubt a higher flow rate (besides maybe a raging torrent) will prevent leaves from collecting in the streams. Like you I have a
      lot of trees but most of mine are evergreen so that helps some. But with the amount of deciduous you have I think it's something you'll
      just have to deal with if you want to keep the streams. But with that said, I think mortaring some of the rocks along with having NO gravel
      in the stream beds, help with the constant maintenance. Also having a 3" or 4" drain to waste in a couple of points along the stream
      route helps. I use a diy "bottom drain" of sorts in a larger pool in the stream that run out to a point I can dump water to along
      with a plug to keep it from leaking when I'm not flushing it.
      To give you an example my streams have some of the small rock near where the water drops in steps mortared in place, along with the
      liner being completely bare. It sounds like it'd be an eyesore with no gravel, but the black liner resembles the pond where algae grows on
      it and it sort of just looks like a stream bottom after a time. With that it makes it much easier to occasionally pick the leaves out of
      the stream and the drains in the basins allow me to just use a spray hose to flush debris done them and out into the yard. I usually only
      do this after the streams have been shut down all winter, but it makes the chore a lot less backbreaking.
      (sorry for the filter details... pic is from another post)

      Name:  filter plan.jpg
Views: 200
Size:  166.2 KB

      I've just grown to accept the extra leaf maintenance as part of the cost of having the streams, which aesthetically I find worth the extra
      work.
      --Steve



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    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      I think mortaring some of the rocks along with having NO gravel
      in the stream beds, help with the constant maintenance.
      I think that's what I'll do.I love the stream its definitely staying. I can't wait to see it with a high flow rate with water actually cascading over where it steps down.

      I think the general rule of thumb for a waterfall is 200 gph, correct me if im wrong. Is this what i should shoot for for the stream and if so where should i take this measurement, widest point, narrowest, average?


      Thanks again for all your help!
      Last edited by Pike; 03-29-2018 at 08:16 PM.

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      I like your big yard!! . And yes, keep the stream. I have a stream for my pond too and I love it.

      Look like you plan to redo both upper and lower ponds, I would redo the stream also if I were you for couple reasons:
      1) The liner is already 10 years, you may as well replace it when you already redo both ponds.
      2) Cost wise, I think it will be about the same. I think you would need a lot of mortar to fill all the gaps between rocks for that 80ft long stream. For 80’x5’ liner costs around $400.
      3) Labor wise, it will probably be little more effort for the redo (maybe not), but it’s straight forward. Mortaring that 80 ft stream will not be quick either. I imagine you have to pressure wash and clean them very well somehow, otherwise, the mortar will pill off in a few years and it will not look very nice.
      4) with a new build, you have options to modify to fit with your two new ponds.

      hp.

    18. #18
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    19. #19
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pike View Post
      I think the general rule of thumb for a waterfall is 200 gph, correct me if im wrong. Is this what i should shoot for for the stream and if so where should i take this measurement, widest point, narrowest, average?
      A very general guideline I've read is 100 gph per inch of width to get a nice flow over the rocks. Obviously if you have
      varying widths of waterfall rocks you'll get a varying flows over them. The wider rocks may have more of a broken flow
      over them while the smaller ones may have a nicer flow. You kind of have to reach a balance that you like. I bought a
      slightly bigger pump than I think I needed and then put a valve on the output to achieve a flow that I liked.
      --Steve



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    20. #20
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      That's a beautiful setting you have there. But to keep what you have and re-do it right you would want all your filtration, pumps, UV, and electrical down by the lower pond. Your emphasis seams to be on the lover pond, which means a long walk just to enjoy your fish.

      Something different to think about.

      If it was mine, I would eliminate the creek and lower pong and just build one really nice larger pond where the top pond is. It would really simplify filtration and electrical location. You could add a nice deck or patio and have all your viewing pleasure right out your door.

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