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    Thread: Critique: Ki Matsuba...or Asagi?

    1. #1
      Euryth's Avatar
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      Critique: Scaled Midorigoi, Ki Matsuba...or Asagi?

      I also purchased this interesting little tosai that appears to be a green or yellow colored fish with reticulation beginning to form and am unsure what to call it. It's from the same breeder as my previous Midorigoi/Shusui tosai's critique thread and would love to have some feedback on variety, skin & future potential. I have it entered in a vendor tank so I'll also get judge's feedback tomorrow, but would like to get a jump on that now lol

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      Last edited by Euryth; 03-10-2018 at 04:45 PM.

    2. #2
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      Euryth, I'm calling it midorigoi (scaled) and not ki asagi but with these types that don't have established show standards, identification is a bit arbitrary.

      I believe that like shusui, asagi should have a clean face but i have ki asagi with yellow face and the scalation is blue like asagi. the scales on your fish are blue and that makes one think asagi, but i think the ground color of this koi dominates the appearance of this fish and midori is more right. i'm not versed in matsuba. Let's hear what the judges think!



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    3. #3
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      Koigrl, if my line of thinking is correct, it seems most doitsu koi have a scaled alternate variety they are derived from like Asagi = Shusui, Matsukawabake = Kumonryu, etc. In your experience (or anyone else's of course), what would the scaled version of an Aya Wakaba be?

      The reason I ask is this particular tosai does have the ki/midori on the facial pattern like the Ki Asagi posted as reference pictures in my other thread, but does have spots of blue ground peeking through the midori or ki. Similar to what rain was asking, could this be a heavily patterned pr colored, scaled Aya Wakaba? I haven't seen photos of scaled Midorigoi with blue areas of ground peeking through, which is what initially made me think Asagi. Now I'm confused lol!

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by Euryth View Post
      Koigrl, if my line of thinking is correct, it seems most doitsu koi have a scaled alternate variety they are derived from like Asagi = Shusui, Matsukawabake = Kumonryu, etc. In your experience (or anyone else's of course), what would the scaled version of an Aya Wakaba be?

      The reason I ask is this particular tosai does have the ki/midori on the facial pattern like the Ki Asagi posted as reference pictures in my other thread, but does have spots of blue ground peeking through the midori or ki. Similar to what rain was asking, could this be a heavily patterned pr colored, scaled Aya Wakaba? I haven't seen photos of scaled Midorigoi with blue areas of ground peeking through, which is what initially made me think Asagi. Now I'm confused lol!
      Euryth, perfectly okay to be confused!
      These are all new or elusive types. There is little written. Kodama writes the most about these types in the form of ads for their auctions so == overkill that works!

      Midori is deliberate, but ki shusui, ayawakaba are byproducts of midori spawning.

      I believe these midori variations, ayawakaba in particular, is a byproduct of midori that comes randomly, is not line bred, and it has been named as a marketing idea. I don't think there is a big ground swell of interest in ayawakaba. also true of others of yamanaka ohya's byproduct of midori: aYawakaba, aKawakaba, and brace yourself Midoriwakaba. All of these are doitsu.

      I have photos of these three midori spawn offshoot types that were taken by the first cell phone in creation and cannot be blown up.

      to answer your question, there's no official japanese or in the books variety (that i know of) called scaled ayawakaba.
      There is definitely a scaled midori.

      A member here a few years ago, Wayne1, was also breeding for ki shusui and came up with something called "ayawakaba, scaled kind."
      I don't know anymore what it looks like - but, to my knowledge, it doesn't exist with the breeders in japan.
      so -- it is what you call it.

      I posted those pics of ki asagi so you could see the scalation is exactly asagi.
      question:
      what is scaled kohaku called? is there such a thing?
      more soon!



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    5. #5
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      Thanks again for the in-depth explanation - clarified a lot for me! I'm hoping to grow it out & keep track of its progress in this thread so others can see how it develops over time. I took new photos right before being released into the QT for any other critiques or analysis anyone may have. I have also included a screenshot of my winner's certificate showing which tosai I took to the show won which award:
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    6. #6
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      Euryth, I've changed my mind about that scaled koi and now agree; that is scaled ayawakaba. i was unable to see the pattern in the smaller photo. but there it is. fresh new leaves over water under scales!
      Will be great for you to keep a photo record of this fish.
      Good job of selection! and of ID!



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

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    7. #7
      Euryth's Avatar
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      I had a thought that could be a strong possibility, so I'm happy to have you support that idea too! Are there any photos of scaled Ayawakaba that you may have come across so I might have an idea of what to expect?

      Another cool thing about this tosai is you can almost make out kado gin on the scales if you're looking in person!

    8. #8
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Euryth View Post
      I had a thought that could be a strong possibility, so I'm happy to have you support that idea too! Are there any photos of scaled Ayawakaba that you may have come across so I might have an idea of what to expect?

      Another cool thing about this tosai is you can almost make out kado gin on the scales if you're looking in person!
      I don't have any, never saw any advertised, and for all we know only exists rarely and is culled for lack of interest or conformity with the type with a market.

      Wayne1 called it scaled ayawakaba. possibly, if you can find his thread, you can find it. his thread also started with ki shusui. he hasn't posted in a couple of years. ;(

      In one of those inland koi photos i posted, i saw maybe one scaled fish in that batch, but too small to really see it.
      i wish i could tell you more.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2013

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