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  • Results 1 to 15 of 15

    Thread: S&G Filter - Some final questions before I start my build

    1. #1
      Vulcan900 is offline Junior Member
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      S&G Filter - Some final questions before I start my build

      S&G Filter - Some final questions before I start my build

      Air Manifold
      I've seen some designs that have the air manifold under the gravel tray with inlet pipes and others that have the air manifold on top of the gravel tray. Cannot decided which is best

      Waste Outlet
      All designs i have seen have had the Waste Outlet higher than the Pond Outlet and you have to cap off the pond outlet when flushing the system. Would there be an issue with having the Waste Outlet close to the media level,below the Pond Outlet, that way you get more of the dirt out when flushing the system and have a ball valve on it to stop that outlet when not in use then the water would rise back up to Pond Outlet level.

      I will be installing a shower drain in the bottom of the barrel.

      Name:  Pond UV Inline-TopInlet (1).jpg
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    2. #2
      birdman's Avatar
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      The air manifold needs to go under the gravel tray or grating.

      I put my waste outlet 4" lower than the pond outlet because when you turn the Air blower on the water level in the barrel will rise about 4". If it was near the top like the pond outlet the barrel would over flow.

    3. #3
      TriadDawg is offline Junior Member
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      If you look again, at least at Birdman's design of this filter, you will see that the outlet to waste is BELOW the pond return. Also, be sure the manifold is expelling bubbles across as broad an area of the barrel width as possible. I would worry that the air manifold would not efficiently clean the gravel media if it is tight against the first layer of gravel.

      I would keep the air manifold under the gravel tray, and plumb the 2" shower drain for your Line-In from pond. If you want a clean out, just install a second shower drain with valve to waste.

      I think your current Line-In up high on the barrel is increasing head pressure on the pump, but maybe you need it this way for physical and space limitations.....

    4. #4
      Vulcan900 is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
      The air manifold needs to go under the gravel tray or grating.

      I put my waste outlet 4" lower than the pond outlet because when you turn the Air blower on the water level in the barrel will rise about 4". If it was near the top like the pond outlet the barrel would over flow.
      Good..That answers that question. THANKS!!!!!

      Quote Originally Posted by TriadDawg View Post
      If you look again, at least at Birdman's design of this filter, you will see that the outlet to waste is BELOW the pond return. Also, be sure the manifold is expelling bubbles across as broad an area of the barrel width as possible. I would worry that the air manifold would not efficiently clean the gravel media if it is tight against the first layer of gravel.

      I would keep the air manifold under the gravel tray, and plumb the 2" shower drain for your Line-In from pond. If you want a clean out, just install a second shower drain with valve to waste.

      I think your current Line-In up high on the barrel is increasing head pressure on the pump, but maybe you need it this way for physical and space limitations.....
      I have debated over the LineIn over the top or have it come in on the side at the bottom. My father in law and I were talking and we thought having the Line-In come in on the side at the bottom that the pump would have to work much harder to push the water up through the gravel. Compared to over the top where the pump is working less to push the water down the Line-In and the water is pushing itself up through the gravel.

    5. #5
      TriadDawg is offline Junior Member
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      If you think about it, it has to push it up through the gravel, no matter how you provide the Line-In to the barrel. You are adding more resistance by routing it that way instead of it coming in low and straight up through the barrel.

      Again, if you have a small working space in the garage, or other reasons, and your pump is not being pushed, no problem. I would try to keep the water route as short and as direct to the barrel bottom as possible. It is an up flow filter.

    6. #6
      Vulcan900 is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by TriadDawg View Post
      If you think about it, it has to push it up through the gravel, no matter how you provide the Line-In to the barrel. You are adding more resistance by routing it that way instead of it coming in low and straight up through the barrel.

      Again, if you have a small working space in the garage, or other reasons, and your pump is not being pushed, no problem. I would try to keep the water route as short and as direct to the barrel bottom as possible. It is an up flow filter.
      No space limitations. Either option I can do

    7. #7
      Mild Bill's Avatar
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      I don't think there's a lot of resistance. I am drawing water through a 3 inch line from my skimmer 40 feet away then pumping it about 20 feet to 2 S&G filters with a 4700gph pump. I still have to close the ball valve slightly to re-strict flow.

    8. #8
      wfhoffmaniii is online now Senior Member
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      I put mine up and over. There isn’t any difference in static head since the water starts and ends at the same level in a sealed pipe (siphon effect). The additional head comes from the extra 90 to turn the water down into the barrel and the length of pipe.

      As to resistance through the gravel at 2000 gph I see between 1 and 12 inches of static head in the air pipe depending on how clean the gravel is ( inches of water above the water level in the barrel observed in the pipe for air).

      Bill

    9. #9
      Vulcan900 is offline Junior Member
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      I think this is my final design of the S&G to replace my current 55gal barrel that just has filter pad material in currently

      Name:  Pond UV Inline-ButtomInlet.jpg
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      Last edited by Vulcan900; 03-08-2018 at 02:21 PM.

    10. #10
      Vulcan900 is offline Junior Member
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      Now I just need to come up with air manifold design. Here are some ones I found.

      Credits: Birdman, Kent Wallace and YouTube

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    11. #11
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan900 View Post
      Now I just need to come up with air manifold design. Here are some ones I found.

      Credits: Birdman, Kent Wallace and YouTube
      Here's a couple more:

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...-for-SG-filter

      And if you do go up and over the top to feed the filter you might drill a 3/8" or so hole in the input pipe once in the
      filter. It acts as an anti-siphon so when the pump is shut off the water doesn't siphon all the dirty water in the filter
      back towards the pump. Avoids the need for a check valve.

      Name:  sg filter.jpg
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    12. #12
      mplskoi is online now Supporting Member
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      I would just add one more thing here-
      regarding the number of holes drilled in your air manifold. I don't think more is better. Over time there is a risk of the holes plugging with debris. If you put 80 holes in the manifold and your air supply is only strong enough to blow 40 of them clean, then most likely 40 of them will become plugged. If it turns out that all 40 (that get plugged) are on one side of the barrel, then one side of the barrel will not get good air supply to clean it. I think it is better to put less holes in your air manifold, but have them nicely spaced so that you have good air distribution.
      On one of the last SG filters that I built I attached the shop vac that I would use as a blower. I drilled 20 holes. Then I hooked up blower. I could tell that there was quite a bit of back pressure. I drilled 10 more holes. Ran blower. Still quite a bit of back pressure. Drilled 10 more holes. Now no back pressure when blower was running. If I had drilled 80 holes but only needed 40 don't you think that 40 would become plugged? And wouldn't i stand to reason that it wouldn't be every other hole, but more likely one side or one area?
      Just another man's opinion.

    13. #13
      Vulcan900 is offline Junior Member
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      Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't started the project yet so no drilling yet.

    14. #14
      birdman's Avatar
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      Your best option is to follow my design or Kents. Both are proven designs that work week. No need to try and re-event the wheel.

    15. #15
      Dave 01 is offline Junior Member
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      I built 3 of the Birdman type filters and they are working great. My new pond went from muddy dirty to clear in 4 days, 55 -60,000 gallons. The only thing I did different was I used uniseals to put the pipe through the barrels. Like he says above, don't re-invent the wheel

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